OBGEv2 Water Package : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:47 am

I'v been watching the OBGE project for a while now, and this seems like one of its jewels. I would like to make a simple suggestion tho, in the next release would it be possible to compile a list of the shader edits you've mentioned on this forum in the README.TXT ? Some other ones like what needs to be changed to change the colour of the water would be kewl aswell, if its simple. Anyway, HUGE props for the awesome work, plan on using it for my next build once the new OOO and MMM are released.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:21 am

I got it to work using OP instructions, Nvidia 8800GTS here. I also saw the ring of vanilla water issue around myself and and a mudcrab.

Water looks awesome now, great work. Only issue: underwater reflections are missing?

PS. A side note, making multiple installs in Morrowind is very easy where Oblivion is :brokencomputer: . I wish plugin.txt and oblivion.ini files can be stored inside Oblivion install folders, like in Morrowind.(saves too!)

Using mTes4 will solve the install issues http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35263 & allow you to play with multiple Oblivion Installs, limited only by how much space you have on your Hard drive.

Gaticus Hasn't been back to update it, but I have been using the unstable version for months now with only occasional Issues, Beebee

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:07 am

I'm quite positive the memory leaks are from the dll, since it turns out I incorrectly assumed it was stable even though it was a debug dll, probably shouldn't have released this water yet, my bad

Hopefully a fix will be out soon though.

Edit: In the mean time, if you don't mind not having reflections, you can use the OBGEv2.dll from the obge core package, in order to get rid of the memory leaks.

Sorry it took awhile to get back on this. So the same issue persisted even after disabling the .esp and only using the water.fx from the shaderlist.txt file.
It's an interesting memory leak. Basically the memory usage continues to go up during new cell loading, fast traveling. Basically any time new content/objects enters the cell.
If I stay still, the memory usage doesn't increase, but it also doesn't decrease. Oblivion's normal memory usage behavior would typically purge out old data in order to make room for new data when changing cells etc...
This is clearly not the case when using the new water.

Really hope this bug can be fixed as the water is amazing!!

EDIT - My crash happened at around 2.6gb memory usage this time, but again right after the crash the memory usage sky rockets to 3.7gb - 3.8ish gb of memory usage. I would say it would keep climbing, but since the addressed space is preventing it, it just stops there. I can't find a pattern yet for what reason the inital crash takes place. 2 times is it was during exploring exterior cells. The last crash was during a loading screen when entering the gates to Chorrol.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:10 am

Are other people reporting frequent crashing? Just curious if maybe your beefy settings might be increasing the rate at which it occurs? Does purging cell buffer do anything?

About to finally spend some time with it myself, though, so I'll see how things go on my end and report anything novel happening.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:53 pm

Are other people reporting frequent crashing? Just curious if maybe your beefy settings might be increasing the rate at which it occurs? Does purging cell buffer do anything?

About to finally spend some time with it myself, though, so I'll see how things go on my end and report anything novel happening.

I'll drop some of my beefy settings. Starting with shadows and the reflections. Will report back.
Gonna try a new game as well.

EDIT - CTD only a minute or two after starting a new game and attempting to open the gate to enter Anvil Town from the Anvil Docks.
I'll try a Vanilla load order and see how that goes. My guess is the crash won't occur nearly as quickly without any mods running.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:40 am

It would help if people could post where they experience water levels suddenly shifting and causing issues, as I'm fixing as many of those locations can be fixed by changing cell water height in the esp.
So far I've fixed anvil and cheydinhall. Next place I know of (that is fixable) is the imperial city ponds

Is this the anvil one your talking about ?

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112553888-4.jpg

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112553916-4.jpg

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112553956-4.jpg

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112554018-4.jpg

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112554060-4.jpg

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/112553815-4.jpg

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:34 am

Cogstar do you use ScreenEffects ?
Cause it was the culprit for my non reflective water as it installs a copy of obge.dll (the old one) in the obse plugin folder.
Removing it solved my problem and ScreenEffect still works.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:01 am

Cogstar do you use ScreenEffects ?
Cause it was the culprit for my non reflective water as it installs a copy of obge.dll (the old one) in the obse plugin folder.
Removing it solved my problem and ScreenEffect still works.

no i dont use ScreenEffects here is my LO

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Morrowind_ob.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3]03  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.4]04  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp05  DLCShiveringIsles.esp06  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.1]07  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp08  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.3]09  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.3]0A  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]0B  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp  [Version 0.7]++  Symphony of Violence.esp0C  PowerAttack Voicemod - The Shivering Isles.esp0D  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.3]0E  7lbsBedrolls-OBSE.esp0F  Luchaire's Neck Seam Concealer.esp10  DarNifiedUI Config Addon.esp11  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.4]12  Lock Bash Omega.esp  [Version 1.5]13  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.0.2]14  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0.2]15  DLCVileLair.esp16  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp17  DLCSpellTomes.esp18  DBShadowSet.esp19  Dread Knight Armor.esp1A  JediLightsabersCollectionV1.3.esp1B  Lich King's Helm v1_0.esp1C  New Frostmourne Sword by Jojjo v1_0.esp1D  PTArtifacts.esp1E  Shields Of Antiquity.esp1F  Vvardenfell_Imports.esp20  MorrowOblivion_World Transport.esp21  Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp  [Version 1.03]++  Modified Bandits.esp22  AraenyaRealm.esp23  BladeOfTheHaunted.esp  [Version 1.1]24  DarknessHollows.esp25  Knights.esp26  Knights Essential.esp27  Knights Companion Quarters.esp28  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp29  Oblivion - Soulgems.esp++  ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp2A  ATakesAll.esp2B  Ayelid Wells.esp2C  MidasSpells.esp2D  EnchantmentRestore.esp++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp2E  RenGuardOverhaul.esp2F  Denock Arrows.esp30  Mayu's Animation Overhaul.esp31  DMC Stylish - Specialanims.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Knights.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Mehrunes Razor.esp++  FakeHDR_SM20_bettersun.esp++  No Vampire Feeding Message Box.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3]32  OBGE Water and Shaders.esp33  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:22 am

Not sure if it's been reported yet, but here is another instance of the mysterious disappearing water act

-

http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/2226211.jpg
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/1632723.jpg
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/9249430.jpg

Note: I use all the ULs. Not running much else, other than a few textures, mind you.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:43 pm

Sorry it took awhile to get back on this. So the same issue persisted even after disabling the .esp and only using the water.fx from the shaderlist.txt file.
It's an interesting memory leak. Basically the memory usage continues to go up during new cell loading, fast traveling. Basically any time new content/objects enters the cell.
If I stay still, the memory usage doesn't increase, but it also doesn't decrease. Oblivion's normal memory usage behavior would typically purge out old data in order to make room for new data when changing cells etc...
This is clearly not the case when using the new water.

Really hope this bug can be fixed as the water is amazing!!

EDIT - My crash happened at around 2.6gb memory usage this time, but again right after the crash the memory usage sky rockets to 3.7gb - 3.8ish gb of memory usage. I would say it would keep climbing, but since the addressed space is preventing it, it just stops there. I can't find a pattern yet for what reason the inital crash takes place. 2 times is it was during exploring exterior cells. The last crash was during a loading screen when entering the gates to Chorrol.

Once again you respond with extremely useful information :thumbsup: I just have one last thing for you to test: when you disable reflections for statics and trees does the memory leak decrease, and when you disable reflections completely in the INI does the memory leak still exist?

Edit: Also, just so people know, I can't do anything about fixing water height in exterior exteriors, only in city exteriors/ non default worldspaces. And yeah, thats the anvil thing I was talking about

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:46 am

I really hate to be the bearer of bad news. :confused: I've confirmed with 100% certainty that the water package does indeed leak memory. Or rather, does not purge memory properly during the loading of new cell data, (interior or exterior.)
I tried out the mod with the .esp enabled again but this time only on a Vanilla install. The only mods installed were Official DLC mods.
I turned down my ishadows from 8192 to 1024. I disabled all reflections in the .ini expect the defaults. I also turned off AA where as it used to be set for 32X. It took about 20 minutes to hit a CTD, but I was monitoring the memory usage
of the Oblivion.exe in real time as I switched cells through interior/exterior cells while running and fast traveling. With each cell change, the memory usage would build upon itself, never purging to make room for new data.Finally after about 20 minutes, my memory usage did reach 3.8gb and then CTD. Again, if I stood idle, the memory leak would cease. I've seen other memory leaks where even if you just stand still, the memory usage continuously increases, so this one is a bit different.

For a player who doesn't have many mods loaded or is playing a Vanilla install, it would probably take at least an hour or more to finally hit the LAA memory ceiling of 3.8gb.
But, it is certainly inevitable.

EDIT - I'll try disabling all reflections and let you know the outcome tomerk. :goodjob:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:15 am

Once again you respond with extremely useful information :thumbsup: I just have one last thing for you to test: when you disable reflections for statics and trees does the memory leak decrease,

No reason for that to happen - The engine allocates the reflection map source texture regardless of the filter settings later used when culling. But as you stated, turning off reflections completely should tell whether it's the culprit.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:55 am

No reason for that to happen - The engine allocates the reflection map source texture regardless of the filter settings later used when culling. But as you stated, turning off reflections completely should tell whether it's the culprit.

Thanks for clearing that up, I thought only the models that are going to be rendered are loaded into memory, not that there's culling based on the filter settings

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:49 pm

No bueno... After disabling all water reflections in the Oblivion.ini, the leak still persists. I tried this with the .esp turned off and only loading water.fx from shaderlist.txt

One somewhat interesting find though..

If I enter an interior cell. (Bloated Float) the memory will increase by whatever amount of data is within the new cell to be loaded. But, ONLY during the initial load of the that interior cell.
When I exit Bloated Float to the Anvil Docks, the memory will again increase. However, if I turn right around and re-enter Bloated Float, the memory decreases by 10mb.
BUT, when I exit back to Anvil Docks, the memory increases by 20mb.

So in a nutshell. Interior cell transition data seems to be purging or at least attempting to, BUT exterior cell transition data does not purge at all.
No matter how many times I exit the Bloated Float back out to Anvil Docks, I see an increase of at least 20mb in memory usage. So it is building upon itself for sure. I could potentially exit and re-enter the Bloated Float over and over until I crash the game... But I would probably go mad doing it.
Obviously this isn't proper memory usage behavior for the game.

Made some EDITS in case you missed them...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:01 am

When you attempt to purge the cell buffer with pcb or some other method, does the memory decrease how it should or does it stay used up?

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:54 pm

When you attempt to purge the cell buffer with pcb or some other method, does the memory decrease how it should or does it stay used up?

I'll give that a shot using the pcb command.
Just an FYI, you're right about the memory leak ceasing when using the orginal OBGEv2.dll that comes with the OBGEv2 download. So, it is definitely something with the new OBGE dll from the water package. BRB

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:12 am

Yikes... PCB has extremely little to no effect. It might be better to test with a large mod order though, but I saw maybe a 1mb or 2mb decrease in physical memory usage when running the PCB command. But that was only once or twice. Generally it had no effect. Even in heavily AI populated areas like Imperial Market, Anvil Docks and WaterFront. It would take me a while to get my load order back to snuff, but I could re-test the PCB command tomorrow if you'd like.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:19 pm

It's an interesting memory leak. Basically the memory usage continues to go up during new cell loading, fast traveling. Basically any time new content/objects enters the cell.
If I stay still, the memory usage doesn't increase, but it also doesn't decrease. Oblivion's normal memory usage behavior would typically purge out old data in order to make room for new data when changing cells etc...

It leaks 30-40 bytes every time a texture is allocated. It's not the way it should be, but it's a debug-build ... :wink_smile:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:59 am

Underwater fog triggers when player(eye) is underwater, not camera. Third person camera sees too much fog.
Around Cheydinhal(outside and inside the city), water disappears and reappears. Trigger is again not camera position but player position(eye?). When water disappears, there is also a huge performance hit. Third person camera angles don't trigger this issue.

1 is because of streamline fog settings. False alarm, sorry. The performance hit is likely due to the said memory leak but I can't really tell because Oblivion usually increases my memory usage to 1.9/2.0, rarely stables at 1.6(1.4) GB. This was an unmodded install so I should have thought better of Oblivion.

PS. Plus rings disappeared when displacement was disabled.

@Beebee, thanks for the tip. :foodndrink:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:36 am

First of all, I also experienced a crash when memory usage reached 3.1 GB.

Secondly, I have just tested the HDR fix and it has a bug where the water normals are not rendered near the player.

http://img709.imageshack.us/i/screenshot11fe.jpg/
http://img39.imageshack.us/i/screenshot10cm.jpg/

Edit: Spelling errors

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:33 pm

it really looks fantastic, sadly i'm unable to play with it, because i get crashes with OBSE v20 when autosaving

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:53 am

it really looks fantastic, sadly i'm unable to play with it, because i get crashes with OBSE v20 when autosaving

I agree that it does look great but I won't use it unless the memory leak is fixed since I'm already running a very heavy modded game and can't really risk having the game become unstable. (Current game install already takes up 21.4GB of space)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:02 am

I've made the file hidden untill a fix for the memory leaks.
Edit: I've put it back up, but I've made a note that there is currently a memory leak

edit 2: Just so people have an idea of what's going to be in the next update (once all of the stuff is done):

A fix for the memory leak
Lava from the mod Real Lava (implemented, still needs LOD system)
Semi- HDR fix
Better instructions for editing shader variables
Instructions for how to customize the water

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:02 am

I hope the memory leak is not going to give you too much headaches.
Good luck ! :goodjob:

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:37 pm

i found a bug and made a video of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWvWgH7633Q

i am near a river north of cheydinhal using unique landscapes
it's not really a problem and it didn't bother me at all but i thought i should let you know about it