I still find Skyrim's dungeons to be exceedingly linear. Given how some of them are supposed to represent old buildings and even entire cities, I'm surprised at the overall lack of "crossroads" to be found. Branching tunnels are usually extremely short and blocked up by a cave-in or other such barrier. Puzzles are in-line, simply used to open the door in front of you. At no point do you have to go back, go somewhere else, or find anything. I can't think of more than 1 or 2 dungeons in the whole game where I ever was at any risk of getting lost. Not only that but the exit to the dungeon usually takes you right back to the start, usually the starting room or chamber, on a ledge that was previously unreachable.

Because of this, the designers chose to limit our jumping and climbing abilities in order to minimize our chances of exploring dungeons backwards. But I don't want that every time. Sometimes I want to have to decide which way to go. Sometimes I want to have to stumble around for a minute, trying to figure out what to do next. That doesn't seem to happen in the Skyrim dungeons. I can't make the wrong decision. If I came in through one tunnel, then the way forward is simply the other tunnel. Nothing more to it than that.

We've all seen the doors that are barred from one side. They are fairly cool, and I think using that concept could make dungeons so much more interesting than they currently are. Dungeon design could be so much more chaotic, with winding and twisting passages, forks, intersections, and multiple levels to allow for a little exploration. Every now and then I like to make a choice about which way I'm going, I like to actually have the chance to head in the wrong direction now and then.

One way doors could easily be used to control this as well. Any passage or doorway that would lead to a shortcut prematurely could be locked from the backside. It's not an uncommon thing to do, and it's such a simple way to manage dungeon design.

I agree 100% with you. Every once in a while I want to be lost, or maybe have to pause and think before easily activating a "puzzle". One of the things I hate about new games is how straightforward and simple they are. I never played it, but I heard that the Daggerfall Dungeons were insane.

Come to think of it, the dragon priest dungeons should have been like the temples from Zelda IMO.

I agree too. Unfortunately, a lot of people do not want to think about what direction they are going when they are in a dungeon. They just want to focus on the combat. I think that is why Bethesda designed the dungeons the way they did. The product of focus groups.

There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about this subject and the viewpoint seems to be rather split.

Properly idle, I even copy/pasted the bit about copy/pasting :

With the due diligence of the truly idle, I copy/paste this post of mine from an old thread :

I would love a few of these :
[Hits level 30]
[Courier delivers note, "you have come to my attention, blah, blah, reward for retrieving etc.", and three keys]
[Enter dungeon, Key removed from inventory.]
[Books, puzzles, clues, choice of two paths, Key removed from inventory]
[More clues, big bad boss, choice of three paths, Key removed from inventory, get outside, portcullis clangs shut, do you have the treasure, or not?]

The ability to reload and take all paths, just to see, wouldn't detract from those of us who would appreciate this and wouldn't reload.

And let's face it, go left or right, come back, go right or left this time is still effectively linear. Branches, not detours.

They might also want to focus on roleplaying.

one of the great aspects of morrowind that drew me in was the fact that i routinely got lost and had no idea where i was or where to go.

i have spoken of the bland linearity of skyrim's dungeons and it's total lack of appeal.

Roleplaying has nothing to do with dungeon design. You can roleplay in a linear dungeon just as much as you can roleplay in a non-linear dungeon, except that the non-linear dungeon is far more enjoyable to explore.

So I'm not sure what your point is. Would you care to clarify perhaps?

Interesting. In what way is roleplaying advanced by the knowledge that there is no way you can get lost in Skyrim's dungeons because there is only two ways you can travel, forwards and backwards?

Couldn't agree more. Remember that scene in LOTR, where the fellowship wait at a fork in the passageway while travelling through Moria, waiting for Gandalf to decide which path is the right path? I want situations like that!

I don't think I'm wrong in saying that Blackreach is pretty much universally agreed to be one of the best dungeons in the game. Blackreach is one of the few dungeons that isn't linear, and it's really fun to explore for that reason.

Er. In Elder Scrolls Oblivion I got lost several times and that never stopped my roleplaying. Instead it got me into the character even more. The sudden panic as you enter each wrong tunnel into dangerous traps.


Thank you and agreed.

To the rest of this topic. Not only that, but I'm unsatisified with how many dungeons are tied to a quest. I remember from Morrowind and Oblivion sometimes I just wondered into dud dungeons. Dungeons that were there that had nothing to do with a quest, but more about the adventure and the quest of it all. I do not like having to every time go on the Wikia to seek with a Skyrim's dungeon is attached to a quest and usually half of them are. So I never just get to explore or have a true adventure.

I liked getting lost though. That was always fun and added realism to my roleplay. I hate combat focused stuff.

your point about having lots of dud and nonquest dungeons is right on. and, with all the bugs associated with said quests, it can really get one a touch peeved, lol.

Well thing is I remember one quest in Oblivion, the collector. Where he wanted those Aeylid artifacts and it was great fun before he located the names of the remaining artifact dungeons to sit there and wonder into an Aeylid ruin and be like "frak" this doesn't have an Aeylid artifact it's just some lone Aeylid ruin. It made the quest and the search for the Aeylid artifacts far more interesting than, follow this tunnel, treasure at the end, yeah.

I think I only got lost once and that was in Heamar's Shame in Skyrim. But that's because it was hard to see the entrance I had walked into with all the snow and the very white. Nothing was there to contrast one another.

I found the Dwemer ruins to be the best in this regard. At least they do have some alternate paths that lead around somewhere besides the main path. Well some of them do anyway. I enjoyed them the most. To bad more of the caves and such didn't follow that design. I don't mind the end room having a path back to the beginning though because there's not much to be gained by backtracking anyway. But I would appreciate having multiple paths to explore.