Hi Xod.

Will not use unless the stone limitation is removed. Atronach stone or Lord stones are required as far as I am concerned for Master difficulty.

Conjuration levels hella super mad fast if you use Soul Trap much. The raise dead spells in-combat will rocket it fast too. It's the Atronach spells that level Conj ultra slowly. I personally wish Twin Souls was near the bottom of the tree instead of at the end. Seems wierd the end talent is prettymuch only good for summoning 2 dremora lords, since you'll never summon anything else at 100 skill since the atronachs have static levels (dremora lords are 42, even potent storm atronachs are like 35 I think and potent fire atronachs are 12 or 13... big whoopdy doo, the atronachs all svck with their 25 damage fire/lightningbolts of slowness). Would be at least more entertaining to dual wield zombies/elementals for more time in your career than at the very end.

Illusion is slow to level if you actually use it naturally, but levels mad fast if you spam Courage on npcs in town or Calm. However, I'd say that Illusion at all ranks below 100 is pretty crap, because of the low level caps on the spells and because they do not work on undead/automatons until the 100 point talent.. and more than half this game is undead. If I was changing perks I'd make the "works on everything" perk be somewhere low in the tree instead of at the top. The top talent should be a level cap increase, like the perks below it in the tree. Just something so your stuff doesn't all cap out at level 35 or lower ( and 35 only for the annoying Master spells at that)


You should leave enchanting alone. Like Illusion it is mostly only good at all when you have it at 100 skill. Until then you grind worthless, 10%-the-use-of-random-quest-junk gear with inferior soul gems since they don't drown you in Grands until you're pushing 40. Trades being easy to level in Skyrim makes up their for their dullness.

And anyone who thinks they gimped their character by getting to 100 smithing super early clearly isn't putting their sword on the grindstone or something.

As I had written earlier my sneak skill didn't level that fast with my archer, more the less the way I would expect. My guess is that I'm either sneaking a whole lot less with an archer (you don't have to get that close - by the way: do you get more exp for more "difficult" tasks like sneaking close to an enemy?), or that maybe you get more experience towards the sneak skill from sneak attacks with a dagger.
So this is just my personal experience, but maybe it would make sense to increase experience from sneak kills with bows a bit (if this is possible) to counter the overall slower skill gain which I fear might hurt archers in relation to those that prefer getting close.

Another question regarding your plans to make smithing not affect your overall level.
Do you want to implement this only for smithing or for all crafting skills? I guess this will again be a separate module (I love the customisability of your mods)? How about making all crafting skills contribute less towards your overall level, but not remove their influence completely?

You get huge sneak skill for getting stealth kills with dagger. I had 60 sneaking or something like that on my one-hit-everything character before I left Bleak Falls Barrow fresh off of Helgen. Easy to sneak kill resting Draugr before they activate from their nap bays. in Vanilla I mean.

I'm ok with the speed Sneak levels at. (vanilla) It's kind of your weapon skill moreso than one handed is. Like only 3 perks in one handed that even help daggers anyways.

It's far too late, and maybe I missed it... using the Linear PAcing Revamp, will the max level remain 81? And am I understanding correctly that using it will make post-50 level gain actually happen, rather than the MMO-like grind it is in Vanilla?

Absolutely ridiculous skillgain for those assassinations. I almost always hear that skill-up sound when I do the assassination throat-slit animation...

The regular one lines up with vanilla in total xp at the same time, so yes, 81. The one that "crosses" the vanilla line at level 50, however, will take you all the way to 128. But you are certainly right that it will offload that late-level grind evenly onto earlier levels. It's linear

On that note, from my overhaul page:

One suggestion is to lower XP from skills that give XP outside of combat but reward the player again for casting them while in combat or near enemies.

Smithing daggers should give less XP than a blade. Forging leather materials should give less XP than higher quality or more elaborate ones like ebony. But don't forget to maintain a good enough XP award for the more higher level crafting. The same could be said to aquire skills and perks.

Long story short, it's a nice idea, just don't go penalizing the PC just because some people forcefully find a way to exploit something. And there can be exploits in almost everything.

Think I'll start again and abandon my 80 hours gameplay save to start with this mod. Don't let me down Xod.

NEW IN VERSION 3:
Working from Xenofixus' script as a base (and rediscovering how much I loathe C++), I've created a new script that lets me "fix" the leveling and pacing as I see it:
The script "graduates" gained perk points, but also grants 5 on character creation. Then your character will gain perks as normal until level 11, at which point, you'll start gaining two perks per level. At level 51, you'll start gaining 3 perks per level. The new "recommended" level curve mod is much more linear than vanilla's, crosses vanilla's total xp at level 50 (eg, you'll get to level 50 with the same amount of skill gains), and hits level 100 at 100 in all skills (as opposed to vanilla capping out at level 81). With an additional bonus 3 perks at level 100, you will have exactly every perk in the game at level 100, with 100 in every skill. The 5 creation perks make up for the slow early levels, and I've included a file that reduces the skill requirements of early perks, allowing you to still have your preferred playstyle in the beginning (eg, eagle eye), eliminating the "punishment" of slow early levels, while still allowing you time to soak in early quests and craft without worry of powerleveling, etc. There's still some curve to the leveling, and it's faster overall (adding 19 more levels) - I've tested a lot, and this "feels" perfect to me.

The new script requires Script Dragon: http://alexander.sannybuilder.com/Files/tes/ScriptDragon_1.2.12.0.zip
All you need is the two DLL files in the BIN folder -> put them in your main folder, not your data folder; the one with TESV.exe.
Put my script ASI and INI files in the same base folder, not the data folder. Don't put Script Dragon's trainer script (trainer.asi) in your game folder, or it will conflict hotkeys with my script.
You can change the hotkeys in my script, but by default, F3 will trigger the script to add "back perks" - for characters already in progress. So if you're level 15, for example, you should get 10 perks added: 5 for character creation, 5 for extra perks from levels 11 through 15. Doing this more than once will cheat and continue to add those points.
F7, by default, will reset your perk point count to zero, in case the mod screws up or you accidentally press the perk adding button.
You can also change the number of perks added at character creation.

i was quite thrilled when a new version of this just showed up like that.

however, when using your new graduated perk script, i encounter a nasty ctd upon attempting to view my skill screen.
also happens if i try to reset/readd perks then save using console.

any thoughts, great master?

Fixed

Love the mod. This breaks skill gain from books for me. Known issue?

I can confirm that the latest version works on 1.2.

I haven't checked yet in 0.3, but in 0.2 you got xp for skill books but the xp wasn't enough for a whole skill point (confirmed by observing the xp bar for the skill pre and post reading a book). Since you didn't get a skillup there was no feedback from the UI that you got skill xp. Not sure if Xoda intended this or not. Trainers had the same issue, training a skill didn't give you enough xp for a full skillup. As an example trained conjuration 5 times @L2 and it went from 15 to 18 (again under 0.2).

Interesting. Tested in 0.3 and confirmed this is still the case with book skills. It didn't occur to me that is what could be happening.

I'm assuming this is unintended side effect of modifying global skill growth? Using the 50% mod it appears that I receive roughly half a level of skill increase instead of a full. Makes sense. (The game must dynamically allocate xp based your previous skill level rather than a ++x )

Now do I like that or not?... hmmm.

Sounds quite good. While you're doing this, is there any chance you could move certain perks like dual souls and dual enchanting down from level 100? It seems unfair that you can only enchant with two enchantments if you're a master; it makes it so there's no point in leveling it to a high level WITHOUT getting it to 100. Same goes for conjuration.

Well, I don't want to remove incentive for mastering a skill, but you also have a point.

What I want to do is put the "2x" perk a bit lower down, but then a 3x perk at mastery. Of course, then your point still would hold that you would feel compelled to master enchantment before making enchantments...

Is this compatible with the 1.5 version of Elys Uncapper? It allows individual skill gain rate and perks per level adjustments.

Getting really frustrated with this, grrr.
I have installed 3 esps into data folder, skill rebalance + 50% ,levelling LL to 100 and the reduced perk one.
2 graduated perk files are in skyrim folder.
I press F3 after starting for 5 early perks, go to skills menu and crash.
This is a level one character.

Is anyone else getting this? I'm not replicating it.
Did you download the most recent copy, after I fixed the version-based crashing bug?
What else do you have installed?

As to the person who asked about Elys' - I know it was compatible with previous versions, but one might expect one or the other to overwrite if they're both addressing the same memory address.

Sorry about that, i went thorough everything except checking the download.

Seems i never had the quickfix version, its working great now , thanks.

This mod will suit me great , i hate leveling to fast.

Hmm, nice work, especially without the CS.

Here are some ideas to cut down on grinding but still be able to level skills...

Smithing:

• Gain skill from mining your own ore rather than buying it
  
• Implement condition degradation (this would help sooo much...)

Enchanting:

• Gain skill from trapping your own souls rather than buying them
  
• Gain skill from mining your own soul gems rather than buying them
  
• Allow dual effects from the start, but at -50% max magnitude. Perks reduce that to -0% eventually.
  
• Allow the PC to update custom made enchantment items and gain skill from doing so. (No reason to wait before enchanting items.)
  
• Allow the PC to keep disenchanting items and gaining XP but at reduced rates
  
• Drastically reduce XP from making items
  
• Increase XP from recharging and using enchants

Archery:

• Distant shot XP reward
  
• Moving target XP reward
  
• Hunting XP reward (ie killing bunnies, deer, etc.)
  
• Archery targets in town XP reward (low)

Pickpocket:

• Drastically reduce XP reward relative to price. (The $ you get is reward enough, and gold and jewelry are easy to find and take.)
  
• Increase XP reward relative to weight.
  
• Increase difficulty due to weight.

Alchemy:

• Increase XP for experimenting
  
• Gain XP for using poisons
  
• Gain XP for reading recipes
  
• Gain XP for gathering ingredients

Skill Related Ideas in General:

(These are all just suggestions cuz I like throwing ideas around.)

• This is my biggest issue. I really want a cap on cross skill multipliers so that Alchemy and Enchant cannot improve any skill past the maximum effectiveness of that skill when fully perked. (ie. When using a crafting skill it is annoying enough if you are just as good as a master in every other skill, but it is really annoying when you are better than a master in any other skill... So I'd like it if the best enchantment was made when you were the best enchanter, not when you were the best alchemist and the best enchanter.)
  
  
• To compensate for the caps on enchant and alchemy, allow for uncapped offensive enchants and poisons. (Not that capping these skills at being only as good as every other skill combined is much of a restriction though... )
  
  
• If using Elys uncapper, target enchant and alchemy cross skill buff limits at a value around 100 skill, but leave poisons, offensive enchants and non-cross skill enchants like hp buffs uncapped.
  
  
• Split Alchemy perks so there is a leveled perk for poisons and a leveled perk for potions, but no leveled perk for both (since that basically mirrors the skill itself).
  
  
• Drastically reduce selling price of custom items
  
  
• Add perks that improve selling price of custom items (just cuz you make a nice brew doesn't mean you make one that people want to buy... similarly, just cuz you make something people want to buy doesn't mean you made something worth buying).
  
  
• Add pre-improved items to leveled lists so you don't seem like the only smith in the world
  
  
• Drastically reduce spawn rates of higher level equipment (Finding ebony swords everywhere in stores and dungeons makes crafting them less fun, personally preference.)
  
  
• Additional elemental mastery perk tiers would be nice for destruction.
  
  
• Additional tiers of perks for each material but at the same max effect would be nice for balance.
  
  
• Add an equivalent weakness to magicka enchant to the reduce spell cost enchants (purchased and crafted). At higher enchant levels that weakness eventually goes away. Also cap this at 80% spell cost reduction. This all helps the magicka attribute serve some purpose.
  
  
• Reduce base damage (after smithing) by 50% but increase power attack damage by 50%. Also (and most importantly) make it so you must have the total amount of required stamina to bash or power attack, not just any sliver of stamina. This all helps the stamina attribute serve some purpose.
  
  
• If condition degradation can be implemented, it would be nice if the legendary condition could only be achieved after an item had been repaired many times and the smith has max skill in that tier of material perks. At this point the item stops degrading its condition and is the best condition that item can be (this means buffing with enchant and/or alchemy would not have yielded a better condition item.)

Just bumping this to report that the asi Isn't compatible with patch 1.3. says "EPP: your game version is not supported". hope you'll be able to update soon

Specifically (assuming you're code is still largely based on Xenofixus'), you're going to have to add this to the version check switch:

	case 0xF8458900 : // 1.3.7.0 (signed on 06 Dec 2011)		{			perksPerLevelAddress = 0x9E97EF;			playerPerkCountOffset = 0x6C9;			break;		}

Alchemy is not a slow-to-level skill, for alchemists.

Alchemy does not level at all on a failed potion.

(But it levels pretty fast if you put significant effort into harvesting, and into potion creation. If you are an alchemist, you will need to pace yourself on this, and also you should try to develop a feel for how to harvest and brew.)

Note also that there's an alchemy perk to double your harvesting rate, which will double the exp gain from using your harvests. (People complaining about alchemy leveling to slowly are almost certainly not getting that perk.) Since 2x is higher than the proposal here, I think that this is a mod catering to specific builds (and there's nothing wrong with that, but I wish people were aware when they were doing things like that so they could label their mods properly).

(Note also that playing an alchemist probably means that you are keeping notes about your experiments (on another computer or maybe even on real paper, until someone writes a mod for this), and perhaps also getting levels of that perk which improves your sense of taste.) It also probably means that you will need to spend significant time outdoors and gathering. (Or stealing ingredients, in town, but those supplies seem to be limited.) You will also need to be using or selling your potions and poisons...

The one change I would make, to alchemy, would be to deduct the poison effect value from potions and deduct the potion effect value from poisons (though I would probably leave exp gain alone for those -- they are still good practice and for gaining insight).