Package for Caius Cosades

Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:12 pm

Most of us received the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind%3a%50ackage_for_Caius_Cosades within ten minutes of starting Morrowind. While some undoubtedly heeded the warning not to tamper with it, I think it is likely the majority of us have, at some point, out of curiosity or by accident, opened the package of documents, and was met with the impenetrable block of text therein.

The code has long been known to be a Vigenere Cipher, with the code word "Cosades". Because the player is eventually given a plain text version later on in the game, it seems as though no one has endeavored to actually decipher the document. However, the decryption given to the player by Cosades is incomplete-- the original is approximately twice as long as the version one receives from Caius.

When I recently started a new "scholarly" character to play in Morrowind, I decided to decipher, by hand, the entire document. The first section is closely matched to the decoded version in game, though there are some typos not present in that version. More interesting however, is that the latter half of the document is comprised of an attachment, including The Stranger (with an interesting reverse repetition of one line), and a line-by-line commentary on it.

First, the raw text as deciphered, with the original line breaks from the in-game reader.
ATTACHMENTTHE NEREVARINE PROPHECYTHIS MOST COMMON VERSE IS ONECOLLECTED FROM ASHLANDER TRIBESMENOUR INCOMPLETE SOURCES SUGGESTTHAT THE ASHLANDERS HAVE A STRONGTRADITION OF DREAMVISIONS ANDPROPHECIES AND THAT AMONG THEASHLANDERS THERE ARE MANY OTHERVERSE PROPHECIES CONCERING THENEREVARINEWHEN EARTH IS SUNDERED AND SKIESCHOKED BLACKAND SLEEPERS SERVE THE SEVEN CURSESTO THE HEARTH THERE COMES A STRANGERJOURNEYED FAR NEATH MOON AND STARTHOUGH STARKBORN TO SIRE UNCERTAINHIS ASPECT MARKS HIS CERTAIN FATEHIS CERTAIN ASPECT MARKS HIS FATEWICKED STALK HIM RIGHTEOUS CURSEHIMPROPHETS SPEAK BUT ALL DENYMANY TRIALS MAKE MANIFESTTHE STRANGERS FATE THE CURSESBANEMANY TOUCHSTONES TRY THE STRANGERMANY FALL BUT ONE REMAINSNOTES WITH LINE REFERENCESPRESUMED TO REFER TO EARTHQUAKESAND ERUPTIONS OF RED MOUNTAINALSO KNOWN AS DAGOTH UR POSSIBLYREFERS TO THE BLIGHT A LOCAL PHENOMENONSLEEPERS SEVEN CURSE REFERENCESARE OBSCURETHIS IS A COMMON TROPE FOR LONGTRAVEL BY DAY AND NIGHT BUT HEREALSO SPECIFICALLY REFERS TONEREVARS FAMILY CREST BORNE ONSTANDARDS ARMOR AND WEAPONSOBSCURE TAKEN HERE TO IMPLYSUPERNATURAL BIRTH OR AMBIGUOUSOR SECRET PARENTAGE OR BOTHSTARKBORN MAY MEAN ORPHANED ORNAKED WITHOUT PARENTSASPECT REFERS HIS FATE AS FORETOLD [SIC]IN THE STARS THE SUBJECTSHOROSCOPE MATCHES THE PARTICULARSOF THE PROPHECIESCONVENTIONAL COMPLAINT OFPROPHETS NO ONE PAYS ANYATTENTION TO USPERHAPS BY OVERCOMING THE SEVENCURSES THE STRANGER IDENTIFIESHIMSELF


Here is the same, though with likely punctuation. The line numbers are added, as they seem like they may have been in the original, based on context.
Attachment

The Nerevarine Prophecy:
This most common verse is one collected from Ashlander tribesmen. Our incomplete sources suggest that the Ashlanders have a strong tradition of dream-visions and prophecies, and that among the Ashlanders there are many other verse prophecies concerning the Nerevarine.

[1]When earth is sundered, and skies choked black,
[2]And sleepers serve the seven curses,
[3]To the hearth there comes a stranger,
[4]Journeyed far 'neath moon and star.

[5]Though stark-born to sire uncertain,
[6]His aspect marks his certain fate. His certain aspect marks his fate.[sic]
[7]Wicked stalk him, righteous curse him.
[8]Prophets speak, but all deny.

[9]Many trials make manifest
[10]The stranger's fate, the curses' bane.
[11]Many touchstones try the stranger.
[12]Many fall, but one remains.

Notes with Line References:

[1] Presumed to refer to earthquakes, and eruptions of Red Mountain, also known as Dagoth Ur. Possibly refers to the blight, a local phenomenon.
[2]Sleepers' seven curse references are obscure.
[4]This is a common trope for long travel, by day and night, but here also specifically refers to Nerevar's family crest, borne on standards, armor, and weapons.

[5] Obscure, taken here to imply supernatural birth, or ambiguous or secret parentage, or both. Stark-born may mean orphaned, or naked without parents.
[6]Aspect refers his [sic] fate as foretold in the stars. The subject's horoscope matches the particulars of the prophecies.
[8]Conventional complaint of prophets: no one pays any attention to us.

[9][10]Perhaps by overcoming the seven curses, the stranger identifies himself.

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but I think I may be the first person to fully decipher the document, as I couldn't find the text of this attachment on any of the popular lore sites. Should I create a page on the UESP, and submit a copy of my work to TIL?

EDIT: Forgot this forum used the blackout spoiler tags, rather than the collapsible ones.
EDIT, the revenge of the typo: Fixed errors in my line breaks for the unmodified text.
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Rachyroo
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:54 pm

This is interesting. To me the most impressive part is that about the Nerevarine's birth and parentage. We knew the basic facts already, but it spells it out further. Thanks.
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Hairul Hafis
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:40 pm

Very interesting. Excellent find.
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Dark Mogul
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:37 pm

http://gez117.free.fr/stuff/morrowindcipher.html
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lolly13
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:45 am

While you're at it, could you see if you could see if you could translate http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Treasury_Reportor http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Orders_for_Bivale_Teneran? Neither UESP nor TIL has a translation of either.
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Lloyd Muldowney
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:15 am

Nice work.
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Sammi Jones
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:43 am

Some notes on the document:

The modified repetition of line six might represent an alternate version of the poem, which they had not yet decided between at the point of encipheration, but which was decided in favor of the former by the time of release. It is of course possible that it is simply a typographical error, but, unless they were using an automated means to put it into code, it seems unlikely to me that it would slip through. We can at least conclude that the version with both lines was at no point considered final, as it breaks the line symmetry of the verse.

In the commentary on line four, we see evidence that the symbol of moon-and-star predates the ring, being Nerevar's family crest.

I had long suspected that the "born on a certain day" referred to the birth sign one picked at the start of the game, but this is proof positive of that conjecture. One can see how it, somewhat ham-handedly, dances around the issue that players undoubtedly choose different signs by referring to some never-seen prophecy. It is also the only place in ES cannon that refers to birth signs as "horoscopes"

The commentary on line eight seems to break with the style of the letter, being more informal than one would expect in official correspondence.
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M!KkI
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:00 am

Well done - I think you have uncovered a WIP - and deserve more than a fishy stick - like the Devs ought to send you some special reward!
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Katie Samuel
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:04 am

2 Jeremy Sanders
Your research on the Package for Caius Cosades isn't the first one. In a matter of fact, a Russian programmer Alexander Stasenko has deciphered this code somewhere in 2005. He made it public and even written a small utility, VengCrypt, to cipher/decipher any text in the same manner it was supposed in the game.

Facts:
1. http://rapidshare.com/files/217855507/VengCrypt.zip.html is a program to crypt/decrypt the Package for Caius Cosades. Works with both Russian/English text.
2. http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/the-elder-scrolls-iii-morrowind-29/the-morrowind-yellow-pages-21601.html
Morrowind windfall - This has two things, a walkthrough of translating Caius Cosades' package (very interesting, but not necessary) and the amazing Morrowind FPS Optimizer. You can set an FPS range that you would like and it will dynamically alter the view distance to stay within that range, or if you have the computer power, you can whack the view distance up to TWICE what Morrowind allows. Do backup your saves etc. though, this is unsupported by Bethesda.
3. http://www.imperial-library.info/elsewhere.shtml
See the Package for Caius Cosades.

P.S. Morrowind Windfall is the site of Alexander Stasenko, it's down at this moment.

The text decrypted by Alexander's program:

SPYMASTER CAIUS COSADESKNIGHTERRANT OF THE IMPERIAL ORDER OF BLADESDIRECTOR OF IMPERIAL INTELLIGENCE IN VVARDENFELL DISTRICT EASTERN PROVINCESI HAVE THE HONOR TO ACQUAINT YOU WITH HIS MAJESTYS WISHES CONCERNING PCNAME AN INDIVIDUAL OF NO RANK OR CONSEQUENCEPCNAME HAS BEEN RELEASED FROM PRISON BY HIS MAJESTYS AUTHORITY AND SENT TO YOU WITH THIS MISSIVE PCNAME IS TO BE ENTERED AS A NOVICE IN THE IMPERIAL ORDER OF THE BLADES AND IS TO SERVE UNDER YOUR ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY AS YOU SHALL SEE FIT EXCEPT INSOFAR AS HIS MAJESTYS PARTICULAR WISHES ARE CONCERNEDHIS MAJESTYS PARTICULAR WISHES ARE AS FOLLOWSA LOCAL SUPERSTITION HOLDS THAT AN ORPHAN AND OUTCAST A YOUTH BORN ON A CERTAIN DAY TO UNCERTAIN PARENTS SHALL UNITE ALL THE TRIBES OF THE DUNMER DRIVE OUT THE INVADERS OF MORROWIND AND SHALL REESTABLISH THE ANCIENT LAWS AND CUSTOMS OF THE DARK ELVEN NATIONS THIS ORPHAN AND OUTCAST IS CALLED IN LEGEND THE NEREVARINE AND IS SUPPOSED TO BE A REINCARNATION OF THE LONGDEAD DUNMER GENERAL AND FIRST COUNCILOR LORD INDORIL NEREVARPCNAME HAS THE APPEARANCE OF MEETING THE CONDITIONS OF THIS LOCAL SUPERSTITION THEREFORE IT IS HIS MAJESTYS DESIRE THATPCNAME SHALL INSOFAR AS IS POSSIBLE SATISFY THE CONDITIONS OF THIS ANCIENT PROPHECY AND SHALL BECOME THE NEREVARINETHOUGH THIS PROPHECY IS INDEED ONLY AN ANCIENT LOCAL SUPERSTITION HIS MAJESTY HAS TAKEN COUNSEL ON THIS MATTER WITH HIS MOST EXPERT INFORMANTS AND CONFIDANTS AND HIS MAJESTY IS PERSUADED THAT THE PROPHECY IS GENUINE AND SIGNIFICANT EITHER IN IT ENTIRETY OR IN ITS SEVERAL PARTS AND HE EARNESTLY DEMANDS YOU TREAT THIS MATTER WITH THE UTMOST SERIOUSNESSCERTAIN ASPECTS OF THIS ANCIENT SUPERSTITION ARE DESCRIBED AT THE END OF THIS DOCUMENT AND FURTHER MATERIALS WILL BE FORTHCOMING BY COURIER AT THE EARLIEST OCCASION IT WILL OF COURSE BE NECESSARY THAT YOU ACQUAINT YOURSELF BETTER WITH THE DETAILS OF THIS ANCIENT SUPERSITION FROM YOUR LOCAL SOURCES SINCE THIS MATTER INTIMATELY CONCERNS PCNAME IT IS EXPECTED THAT YOU WILL EMPLOY HIM TO GATHER INFORMATION ON THIS SUBJECT HIS MAJESTY HAS TAKEN A GREAT PERSONAL INTEREST IN THE LEGENDS AND PROPHECIES OF THE NEREVARINE AND EAGERLY AWAITS REPORTS YOUR REPORTSI HAVE THE HONOR TO BE SIR YOUR MOST HUMBLE AND OBEDIENT SERVANTGLABRIO BELLIENUSPERSONAL SECRETARY TO THE EMPERORATTACHMENTTHE NEREVARINE PROPHECYTHIS MOSTCOMMON VERSE IS ONE COLLECTED FROM ASHLANDER TRIBESMEN OUR INCOMPLETE SOURCES SUGGEST THAT THE ASHLANDERS HAVE A STRONG TRADITION OF DREAMVISIONS AND PROPHECIES AND THAT AMONG THE ASHLANDERS THERE ARE MANY OTHER VERSE PROPHECIES CONCERNING THE NEREVARINEWHEN EARTH IS SUNDERED AND SKIES CHOKED BLACKAND SLEEPERS SERVE THE SEVEN CURSESTO THE HEARTH THERE COMES A STRANGERJOURNEYED FAR NEATH MOON AND STARTHOUGH STARKBORN TO SIRE UNCERTAINHIS ASPECT MARKS HIS CERTAIN FATE HIS CERTAIN ASPECT MARKS HIS FATEWICKED STALK HIM RIGHTEOUS CURSE HIMPROPHETS SPEAK BUT ALL DENYMANY TRIALS MAKE MANIFESTTHE STRANGERS FATE THE CURSES BANEMANY TOUCHSTONES TRY THE STRANGERMANY FALL BUT ONE REMAINSNOTES WITH LINE REFERENCESPRESUMED TO REFER TO EARTHQUAKES AND ERUPTIONS OF RED MOUNTAIN ALSO KNOWN AS DAGOTH UR POSSIBLY REFERS TO THE BLIGHT A LOCAL PHENOMENONSLEEPERS SEVEN CURSES REFERENCES ARE OBSCURETHIS IS A COMMON TROPE FOR LONG TRAVEL BY DAY AND NIGHT BUT HERE ALSO SPECIFICALLY REFERS TO NEREVARS FAMILY CREST BORNE ON STANDARDS ARMOR AND WEAPONSOBSCURE TAKEN HERE TO IMPLY SUPERNATURAL BIRTH OR AMBIGUOUS OR SECRET PARENTAGE OR BOTH STARKBORN MAY MEAN ORPHANED OR NAKED WITHOUT PARENTSASPECT REFERS HIS FATE AS FORETOLD IN THE STARS THE SUBJECTS HOROSCOPE MATCHES THE PARTICULARS OF THE PROPHECIESCONVENTIONAL COMPLAINT OF PROPHETS NO ONE PAYS ANY ATTENTION TO USPERHAPS BY OVERCOMING THE SEVEN CURSES THE STRANGER IDENTIFIES HIMSELF

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Charlie Ramsden
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:45 pm

Fritz,

I do not deny that it has been capable to decode the work, nor that any have technically done it before. It does seem, however, that I am the first person to popularize the obscured attachment, in the English half of the internet, at least. Your link to the Stasenko's site is, understandably, in Russian (or some other Cyrillic alphabet language), and the link you provided to TIL makes no mention of the Package for Caius Cosades, nor even Morrowind Windfall, though maybe it did at one time.
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:39 am

I guess nobody paid attention to the link I gave above. That's a page I wrote when I was working on the French equivalent of the Unofficial Morrowind Patch (file stamp on the site for the French version of the page is December 23, 2005), having this utility let us translate the coded messages and recode them, something that the official translators (UbiSoft) didn't bother to do.
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:57 pm

I do not deny that it has been capable to decode the work, nor that any have technically done it before. It does seem, however, that I am the first person to popularize the obscured attachment, in the English half of the internet, at least. Your link to the Stasenko's site is, understandably, in Russian (or some other Cyrillic alphabet language), and the link you provided to TIL makes no mention of the Package for Caius Cosades, nor even Morrowind Windfall, though maybe it did at one time.


I was unaware that the package was decoded earlier. Yes, you are the first person to popularize the obscured attachment - at least for me. Thahk you :).
I've mentioned your discovery in our Russian TES forum and Fritz has recalled Stasenko's work. Stasenko's site morrowind.nm.ru is down, but with the help of Internet Archives one can find http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.morrowind.nm.ru/. Click "Aug 03, 2002" and follow link "decoding of package for Caius Cosades".



I guess nobody paid attention to the link I gave above. That's a page I wrote when I was working on the French equivalent of the Unofficial Morrowind Patch (file stamp on the site for the French version of the page is December 23, 2005), having this utility let us translate the coded messages and recode them, something that the official translators (UbiSoft) didn't bother to do.

I tried but without success. Sorry I didn't understand clearly your instructions how to decipter Morrowind texts with the help of your script - it's my fault :(
I must say that your work of decoding\recoding these texts for unofficial French localization is praiseworthy.
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chirsty aggas
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:17 pm

Having this utility let us translate the coded messages and recode them, something that the official translators (UbiSoft) didn't bother to do.


I'm impressed with the thoroughness and totally not related, your code as a rather distinct French accent.
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Taylor Tifany
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:10 am

Fritz,

I do not deny that it has been capable to decode the work, nor that any have technically done it before. It does seem, however, that I am the first person to popularize the obscured attachment, in the English half of the internet, at least. Your link to the Stasenko's site is, understandably, in Russian (or some other Cyrillic alphabet language), and the link you provided to TIL makes no mention of the Package for Caius Cosades, nor even Morrowind Windfall, though maybe it did at one time.


That's real BS. All right, here is a link to http://web.archive.org/web/20020803002905/http://www.morrowind.nm.ru/ in web archives. It's of August 2002 and in English. His site is down for a year or so, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve a credit for his work. Stasenko's Morrowind FPS Optimizer is another excellent piece of work enabling ATI TrueForm in the game, and it's well-known for years too. In general, you can popularise this "discovery" as long as you want if you feel comfortable living in a cave.
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Manuel rivera
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:09 am

Ooo, looks like the Cold War is about to be resparked right here on the forums.
...and the link you provided to TIL makes no mention of the Package for Caius Cosades, nor even Morrowind Windfall, though maybe it did at one time.

Well, it actually does... it's about the 22nd primary bullet-point down...
That's real BS. All right, here is a link to http://web.archive.org/web/20020803002905/http://www.morrowind.nm.ru/ in web archives. It's of August 2002 and in English. His site is down for a year or so, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve a credit for his work. Stasenko's Morrowind FPS Optimizer is another excellent piece of work enabling ATI TrueForm in the game, and it's well-known for years too. In general, you can popularise this "discovery" as long as you want if you feel comfortable living in a cave.

It's really not that big of a deal you know. Would it make you happy if he said he 'rediscovered' it? Because really, it wasn't sitting around in plain site by any means...
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Jenna Fields
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:30 am

I tried but without success. Sorry I didn't understand clearly your instructions how to decipter Morrowind texts with the help of your script - it's my fault :(

I notice I didn't entirely translate the interface, hopefully it should be a little more clear now. (It really wasn't designed with user-friendliness in mind, sorry.) Also note that it's entirely JavaScript-based, so if you have JavaScript disabled you'll need to enable it for this page at least.
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Maya Maya
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:44 pm

I notice I didn't entirely translate the interface, hopefully it should be a little more clear now. (It really wasn't designed with user-friendliness in mind, sorry.) Also note that it's entirely JavaScript-based, so if you have JavaScript disabled you'll need to enable it for this page at least.


It works! Thank you :)
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AnDres MeZa
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:48 am

That's real BS. All right, here is a link to Stasenko's site in web archives. It's of August 2002 and in English. His site is down for a year or so, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve a credit for his work. Stasenko's Morrowind FPS Optimizer is another excellent piece of work enabling ATI TrueForm in the game, and it's well-known for years too. In general, you can popularise this "discovery" as long as you want if you feel comfortable living in a cave.


I will reiterate again that it is not the decoding that I am popularizing, but rather the obscure attachment. Stasenko makes no specific note about the attachment, and indeed, based on the wording in his post script encouraging people to decode it on their own, it seems as though he may not have realized the in-game decoded package was incomplete. I fully recognize that Stasenko was likely the first person outside of Bethesda to crack the code, and do not begrudge him that discovery, nor do I deny the technical breakthrough that he achieved with his FPS Optimizer.

Well, it actually does... it's about the 22nd primary bullet-point down...


Darn, I admit complete fault for that one. For some reason, Firefox's alt-f search doesn't read the link titles.
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Roy Harris
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:13 am

Well, if that attachment was really in the package, why does Cosades give you the mission to fetch the Ashlander prophecies? And what about the PC would make the eggheads from Cyrodiil conclude you had the 'impression' of fulfilling those prophecies?
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Monika Fiolek
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:34 pm

Well, if that attachment was really in the package, why does Cosades give you the mission to fetch the Ashlander prophecies? And what about the PC would make the eggheads from Cyrodiil conclude you had the 'impression' of fulfilling those prophecies?


Preparation and Clarification?

I think it may be a question of making sure you fullfil the prophesies in detail - and that nothing was left out. It's clear that to do so you have to find the cave of the Nerevarine - best place to start the quest is with the known Lore Meisters of Vvardenfell and the Ashlands. That journey begins even before you get to Nibani Maesa, though the Urshilaku and Nibani Maesa are the targets - with all the people along the way who get you there - note a certain Ashlander Scholar and poetry buff living among the Redoran who assists. He helps you acclimatise.

Caius has no way to be certain that a randon set of actions would lead you to the full result so he sends you to gather all the clues. Best way to approach Lore Meisters is with some demonstration of an effort to learn, an intriguing riddle and a request for their advice. This allows them to assess you and decide if you are genuine and worthy of their efforts in their own time. If you had just crashed in there maybe things would not have gone so well. Maybe they would. Good intelligence work on Caius part.

If you did not want to follow that path - well it was possible to complete the MQ without making any friends or exploring the culture - you could even kill Vivec before you get any assistance from him to survive the use of Sunder and Keening and still kill Dagoth Ur and destroy the Heart - but few achieved that without reading up on what only one or two had done by finding out for themselves - generally by completing the MQ the 'normal way first. Actually if you were really determined you could boost your character up so much that you could survive the use of Sunder and Keening with no special support. But then most wanted to be part of more than just that. I can't remember if you could enter the heart Chamber without all 3 artifacts.
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Andy durkan
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:45 pm

I can't remember if you could enter the heart Chamber without all 3 artifacts.

You can, the person that did the notorious Morrowind speed run at least did.
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Trent Theriot
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:39 pm

You can, the person that did the notorious Morrowind speed run at least did.


That person entirely managed to miss the point of playing a game like Morrowind, I think.
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John Moore
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:56 am

That person entirely managed to miss the point of playing a game like Morrowind, I think.

Truly he missed just about everything. :biglaugh: But having played the game several times before I saw that (and being well satisfied with my own extensive explorations) I quite enjoyed watching how he did it :whistle: and still managed to learn quite a bit from him.

He might well have been a Dev from another company - some of them like to crack other dev's games in record time. There's been a sort of competition going on with that for donkey's years.
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Barbequtie
 
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Post » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:43 pm

Truly he missed just about everything.

I can guarantee you he didn't. You can't find the shortcuts without playing the game fully first. To "speedrun" through Morrowind in less than eight minutes, you can be sure he spent days finding out which steps were absolutely necessary and which methods were the fastest to achieve them. The potion exploit is not something that you stumble upon in the first minute of playing the game.
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Helen Quill
 
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Post » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:36 am

I can guarantee you he didn't. You can't find the shortcuts without playing the game fully first. To "speedrun" through Morrowind in less than eight minutes, you can be sure he spent days finding out which steps were absolutely necessary and which methods were the fastest to achieve them. The potion exploit is not something that you stumble upon in the first minute of playing the game.


I refer you to my previous post:
but few achieved that without reading up on what only one or two had done by finding out for themselves - generally by completing the MQ the 'normal way first.
You may be correct about likely methodology though there were other ways to find out about the properties of various ingradients and potions at the time. Within a very few weeks of the game's release there were write-ups giving the entire list of ingredients, their properties and all the potions and their properties too, plus where they could all be found. Some people had compleeted the main quest before the main release date by getting ahold of press copies of the game etc. With that info you would not actually have to play the game - all you would have to do is access the forum and anolyse the info there, then plan your assault! :twirl: Easy peasy. There are folks who do it alll themselves ofc - as you say.
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Charlotte Henderson
 
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