If this has been brought up previously and discussed at length, I apologize. I did a brief sweep of the topics and I didn't see any discussions on this particular topic and so I thought I was in the clear to go ahead and make this. On to the topic then.

I have done some Google searches on patches for Dawnguard and I've run into comments stating that it is actually impossible to patch DLC, or that the system to do this on consoles is not viable or something to that effect. My question is simply: is that true? I want to believe it isn't, because it seems to me that with Bethesda's track record thus far on all their games (let alone the dlc) it seems that not being able to patch errors within or introduced by the dlc would be problematic. For instance, it is already pretty well known that Dawnguard has glitched Breezehome's alchemy lab. While that is the only glaring glitch I've heard of and come across myself, I would stake some money that their must be some glitches elsewhere introduced by the dlc or in the dlc itself that will NEED to be fixed.

This is by no means a pot shot at Bethesda, I have loved all of their games since Morrowind, and to be perfectly honest, Morrowind is one of my favorite games of all time (Skyrim seems to be edging it out though as we speak). I just hope that this isn't true, because I see the potential to fix as well as maybe even add a few things to the dlc and if it can't be done because of technical loop holes, then that is a tragedy.

Thanks in advance to all the more knowledgable folks who follow up on this, it is appreciated!

The DLCs are simply ESM files and BSA files. They're essentially Bethesda made mods. As long as there are no huge changes, plugin files can be patched and modified without any major issues. Bethesda just need to push out updated versions of them and they're good to go, although the patches may be rather large.

Look at the history of DLC on the consoles with Bethesda and you won't and you won't find any patches. On a few occasions the entire DLC was reuploaded and players had to delete the data and download them again. But that was only done when the DLC was literally unplayable, Dawnguard despite its bugs is still playable. Now someone is bound to bring up the supposed Shivering Isles patch which was actually released on Xbox before the expansion.

Now because Breezehome is base game they could patch the base game to rewrite the code so it no longer conflicts with dawnguard. But the DLC files themselves can't be patched because of HOW patching works on the consoles, the only way to patch DLC is to completely replace the files.

Patching the core game is just uploading files. If you change scripts, you push out new .pex files. If you change meshes or textures, you push out new .bsa files. If you change objects or locations, you push out a new Skyrim.esm file. It's no different for DLCs. While there could be complications involving Microsoft/Sony and the frequency/way things are patched (i.e. patching only users who own Dawnguard), the way DLCs are patched would work in the same way. It's no different to updating a mod.

Shivering Isles was different because it was built into the Oblivion.esm, due to the way Oblivion's engine can't handle ESM files that modify each other.

Point to a DLC patch that was released for any of Fallout's DLC... you can't because it was never done. Patching DLC has major technically issues so the only way it can be done on the consoles is to replace the whole file which is huge mess with Sony/Microsoft. Now if the *&*)&*)*$ developers have said DLC can't be patched we can assume DLC won't be patched.

Skyrim uses a new method of patching however, utilising an Update.esm file instead of modifying the actual ESM. If this is used for DLCs, then patched could be distributed without a major issue, so long as Microsoft/Sony allow user-specific patching (which it's highly likely they do).

Also, the developers have never said that the DLCs cannot be patched.

Execpt Sony/Microsoft haven't allowed user specific patching its one of the issues thats preventing it in the past, and HOW patching is done on the PC is not the same as 360/PS3.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/217676453565720553
http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/217690437698227872

If Skyrim had the ability to patch DLC(which previous bethesda games lacked) They'd have advertised it.

We had user-specific DLCs for the Skyrim Beta. I can't see how updates will be much different.

And I thought you were speaking about Skyrim with the quotes. Apologies.

Because thats a DLC and not a patch for the DLC. All DLC is user specific. You either enter a code that lets you download the DLC.(be it a beta or a temporary exclusive for buying the game new). Or you buy it directly from the store. Patches are very different then that.

Other issues are that DLC doesn't interact with each other very well, example back In New Vegas they explained that because DLC doesn't interact with one another very easily the grunt perk wouldn't work for the GRA Assault Carbine.(or other grunt applicable weapons added by DLC). This makes patching DLC by downloading a new file from PSN/XBOX stores a tricky issue.

I once suggested reserving spaces in the load order for Bethesda DLC. So Dawnguard would always be 01 no matter what DLC you had or 3rd party mods on the PC. Hearthfire would always be 02 even if it was your only DLC. This could in theory let DLC interact with one another and allow patch DLC to be downloaded. However I was either ignored or my theory was simply wrong. I'd wager the reason crossbow animations) added in 1.6 and not just in Dawnguard was so future DLC's can add more crossbows.

Now it be wonderful if something has changed since Fallout and that now they'll be able to patch DLC. But until one of the actual developers for Skyrim says they can patch DLC. I'm going to assume nothing has changed.

First off I appreciate the candid discussion that has taken place here. Secondly, I still do not know what to think lol. I am hopeful that DLC can be patched, however from the stuff LV has provided, it seems to me that patching of DLC will probably be a no go. Still, I guess we won't know until we hear about it at a later date, so as I said, I will continue to hold out hope. Thanks for the info!

Information about patches is the only thing that is going to make me to buy the DLC. If they bring it for PC without changes compared to XBOX DLC, I am not buying it.

well when SI was released they released 2 patches. 1 for all oblivion players, and 1 for people who had SI

As far as I know you don't patch the dlc in the usual way.

From reading stuff on the forums, you either update the dlc download itself and players redownload the whole thing again or you attempt to patch the main game to compensate for dlc issues.
For example, vamp attack genocide could be compensated for by changing the behavior of non essential npcs when threatened.

The litany of issues with Dawnguard is steadily growing but atm I think Bethesda is waiting to see if it's going to snowball into a full blown crisis or if they can get away with "decent dlc, quite buggy but still... onwards!" and just roll on to the next one.

I'm sure of one thing, if they decide to fix/change stuff for the ps3/pc release (they'll have to no?)... xbox users will have to wait till then before getting a fixed version.

Atm you can pay 20 bucks to play the xbox open beta lol.

Or the breezehome glitch could be fixed by rewriting the code for geting the alchemy table.

Only the PC had individual patches, It was the same patch for everyone on the Xbox. And the bugs that were fixed handled base game issues not Shivering Isles ones. The patch released before the Shivering Isles introduced bugs, such as the Form ID bug.

The FormID bug was always in the game, but would have taken thousands of hours to notice. However a script in the Shivering Isles was written badly so it used hundreds of forms a second, accelerating the problem and bringing it to light.

Either way it was a base game issue that was patched not the Shivering Isles, and again 360 had only one patch for all.