Sneak is the best example I can think of. If without perks you can't sneak well, you're not going to be using it as much. Thus your skill is going to stay low which in turn will keep you from placing those perks. Block may be another example, especially for people who want to DW. With block runner and pre-reqs, I could see myself switching to shield to get in melee range then switching back to DW. Without the perks, I doubt I'll be using block very much.

Would anybody else be interested in a mod that gives you 49 perks to assign at level 1 and removes the skill requirements for perks, but you don't get perks when you level?

I would but make it in three forms. 25, 40, and 50. For either hard, medium or easy.

Skills do not require perks. You can do everything in the game without perks... you just won't be the best at it. I really don't get your point.

ALSO, in regards to the mod. That takes all the fun out of leveling.

While mods MAY take away the fun, I doubt it would be too much of a change. I'm not for it, but I can see where you are coming from.

Oblivion, in a sense, had these 'perks' already unlocked, and when your skill got high enough, you gained the perk. While these perks were most of the time passive abilities, they were still essentially, perks.

I believe this is an assumption without merit.

you can probably raise your sneak skill by just crouching in a shop in town somewhere and holding the button down with a weight for awhile.

Don't give the perks at the beginning, just reduce the skill requirements 15 points or so across the board.

It's based off the claim that your proficiency in a given skill has no impact on your ability to use that skill. What I've read is the higher your skill level the more perks in that skill will be available to you to unlock when leveling up, but if you don't take any of those perks then it is the same as if your skill level were zero. In other words, there is no difference in damage dealt with a sword between a character with 10 points in One-Handed/no perks and a character with 100 points in One-Handed/no perks.

That's wouldn't be a mod.. that'd be a cheat. I've used that tactic before in games like fallout for fun.. seriously does over power you to have lots of perks early in the game. I'd think it'd do the same in skryim.

There is definitely a lot of debate over that issue at the moment though.

A mod that ruins the game? No thanks. Also your logic fails.

Is there a thread someone can direct me to that discusses this?

I think Bethesda finally destroyed their leveling system (which imo never really worked) completely. What is the point of a 'gain experience in a skill by using that skill' system if in the end all that really matters are the perks you pick at level up? They could have used an xp based system in that case, would work much better. You distribute all the points that matter on level up anyway.

I actually knew it wouldn't work when I saw the perks for two-handed for the first time a few months ago. The first (IIRC) five perks give 20% more damage each. Pretty obvious that without those perks two-handed would be a useless skill later on in the game, even if you have it at 100. Just another example for Bethesda's thoughtless gameplay design. Glad they offer the CK and an amazing world to go with it.

Unfortunately, my opinion tends to be in agreement with you.

Pete Hines confirmed, that's not true. Give me a moment to find his tweet.

EDIT: It's 8 Nov tweet, I'm not sure how to link exactly to it, I'm just quoting.


I suppose this makes debate pointless

There were several threads about skills without perks, one thing everybody apparently didn't read before joining them was the manual, which clearly states that weapon damage depends on skill level. So at least for weapons, it's untrue. For sneak, there are enchantments that enhance sneaking again, so even if the skill alone isn't enough, there'll be a way. Someone who had the game confirmed that magic skills have an effect on magic. There are some few skills left that haven't been discussed to death individually, but I expect them to work similarly.

Thanks for the information, but there are still areas for debate surrounding the leveling system. Just the same, I feel considerably better knowing this.

What manual?

The game comes with one. If you don't have the game yet, I'm sure there's a way for you to still find out, but I don't think I can explain here why I'm sure

Seems an odd thing to assume people are familiar with when the game hasn't even been officially released.