Then you know very little about history, language and culture.

And no, none of those men you mentioned were gamechangers of the magnitude of my examples.

Comparing Washington to Alexander. Boggling.

But think about it, how does what Genghis Khan affect your day to day life? Shakespeare is either referenced or 'borrowed' from in some shape or form in many forms of media. In terms of day to day life Shakespeare's influence is felt more than Caesar's or George Washington (referring to what they achieved in their lifetime, not spillover effects, for example it could be argued that Hollywood exists because of Washington liberating America, and that is an argument, however Shakespeare's original plays are referenced and re-enacted, the campaign's of Genghis Khan, Washington, Hitler and the Roman Emperor's are also referenced and alluded too, even reenacted by some people, but they have had less of an impact on popular culture than Shakspeare.)

One could argue that Washington and Khan had a greater influence on actual events of their day, by setting them in motion through politics and war, but let's not forget that Shakespeare's plays also had an effect, Macbeth for example helped to manipulate the populace into having more respect for the 'true king' and disdain for usurpers. He had a more subtle affect, but the quote "The pen is mightier than the sword" I think applies. Shakespeare could convince people of messages and social commentary with far more efficiency via subtlety than Caeser could with his armies.

I suppose it also depends on one's interest in literature, as it can obviously be said that if you were living in the time periods of these people. If you lived in England in Elizabeth I's reign you could easily not see any of Shakespeare's plays, but you'd be hard pressed not to be affected by the American War of Independence if you lived in America during it. Whilst those interested in political history would be more educated of Washington's interest, those interested more in literary history would be more familiar with Shakespeare's influence. With a topic as subjective as "Influence on humanity" a lot is relative, for example someone living in Somalia today would not feel very impacted by Hitler's actions or Shakespeare's.

I think literary influence has less instantaneous impact on the world than political influence, but literary hero's and their works are better remembered by the populace, which is another kind of influence. Then again my interest in music probably also skews my view. An example I could think of is that everyone knows Mozart, and many can recognise a melody of his, but I don't know any people who would know who the Holy Roman Emperor was during Mozart's lifetime, but I'm sure those who knew about European history would know more about that Emperor and his campaigns than Mozart and his symphonies. But personally I think artists will be better remembered than leaders, because if I want to gain an understanding, however rudimentary, about, say, Dwight D. Eisenhower I need to read at least his wiki biography, which tells me about his life, whereas if I want to know about Elvis, I can watch a video of him performing or listen to a song, which to me at least provides a greater understanding in a quicker time of who this guy was, big voice over a beat with country-ish picking. From Dwight I need to do a bit of reading to get beyong "President in the 50's", which I don't think a lot of people are interested enough in history to do.

tl;dr In other words I guess what I'm trying to say is that an artist uses their art to explain themselves to you, whereas historians have to try to explain political figures to you, which removes a certain intimacy for lack of a better word.

That was very well said.

Another way to look at things is that an artist changes culture and therefore shifts, re-invents or introduces new paradigms. New ways of thinking, new concepts.

A perfect example is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images, the Treachery of Images by Magritte. This introduced in the popular meme-bank of concepts the fundamental notion that a representation is not the object itself, a foundation of philosophy, and he did so in a simple and elegant manner. You could say he introduced an archetype into the collective subconscious, if you were Jungian inclined.

Someone like Shakespeare changes the way people think and the way they can think. It's hard to work with any concept if you don't have the language and imagery to convey it.

As such, they are the kind of people who don't knock over a piece on the board of life, nor do they invent novel moves.

The put entire new pieces on there and tinker with the board itself too.

wow you must be a blast to do drama with.

Why not do a modern day adapted Shakespeare? They're a little lame, but fun and easier than remembering all the lines in the original. I don't know what your school or class is like or anything, but I don't see how it could be too hard to collaborate on an adaption of something, to make it a little more relevant to the youth of today.

Believe me. My quips are not unwarranted, nor is my lack in faith toward the people I have to work with.

I haven't actually seen or read Waiting for Godot, so I can't really comment . Its cast may be too minimal for Blackhand, regardless.

I was largely making a reference to a (former?) member of these forums, though it may have been long enough that there aren't enough people who'll pick up on it . But anyone who does remember 'im will probably get why I did so.

That's actually one I was thinking of when I made my previous post, but I didn't want to spoil the effect.

I know of history to know Shakespeare was not a game changer in it. Unless you can actually show me some facts where he changed the world, politically? Languages change over years anyway, sure he appears as a major push towards modern English but it's not like the language wasn't bound to change at some point anyway.

Yes, I'm comparing two military men and leaders. Not a King/solider to a poet/playwriter like you have. You could have used Homer or such since they're more similar.

- Why is this a Shakespeare discussion anyway, after Blackhand has said it he won't do? Besides his plays are over done, and lack interest.

-- You could give the students a genre and 10mins to come up with their own play, and parts, if you're looking for ideas not based completely on books?

See my previous post for a pretty decent explanation. You don't seem to have any concept of the importance of imagery. What do you think the world is? People with two braincells bashing each others head in? Culture defines humanity.

You might also want to talk to an English teacher, because, good grief.

Why does Shakespeare come up in the discussion? Because it is a topic about stage acting.

He is simply that important that he can't be omitted in any discussion about the English language or acting.

Can I ask what the play is for? And how high the expectations for the play are?

Have you thought about maybe doing like some legends or something? I'm sure Hawaii has many legends and stories that you can draw inspiration from.

I don't mind a discussion about Shakespeare on this topic, as it is somewhat relevant.

That was actually my plan for an activity, as I plan to have the group focusing on more than just one thing this year around. My idea was that after the first week, I would give the students a homework assignment to write a character that they feel they would be comfortable acting. The writing would have to include their backstory, personality, and everything else one would expect.

After giving them a week to do that, I would then have them work together in groups to have their characters work with others in scenarios that they feel would be appropriate, while also providing a backstory to that scenario. I figured this would be a good way for them to learn a few things about getting into character, character development, the importance of backstory and context, and all that other stuff that an actor should know.

Do you mean the previous plays we have done, which caused me to say "I need to take over and fix this," or future plays? If you want to know about the previous one, that is a very long story that I will gladly tell.

But for the future ones, I feel that we do plays for two primary reasons.

1. We're the Drama Club. If we're not doing plays, what the hell are we doing?

2. The money we get from the plays. With it, I can find us better equipment to buy, and, if we have any leftover, it could go toward making the school we all attend svck less.

The expectations for the play are non-existent in the eyes of the public, but in my eyes, I'm expecting a play that will challenge every member involved with it, whether they be acting or working in some other aspect. The standard I'm holding myself and everyone else to is "We do better than our best."

But how much difference does a political change actually make to the world? A farmer is still going to be growing beans, a trader is still selling his goods regardless of who's taxing him in the long run.

Oh yes, please do tell.

I love cringeworthy stories, they remind me that however embarassing I myself might be, there are people out there that are worse.

You think imagery was nonexistent before Shakespeare? The world is a gigantic rock orbiting a sun. Why what do you think it is? Seems all this is is two people bashing each others head in. Culture also existed before Shakespeare. Maybe stop revering him so much that it sounds like you worship him.

Talk to one why? Elaborate because I could take this two ways.

Sure he can come up but after the words "Shakespeare won't work at all [...]", suppose not many people read all the posts. Yeah it's a topic about acting, so maybe suggesting something interesting and original would be good as well, and not overused plays that now are so common place that there's nothing special about them.

Sounds pretty good. When I done drama we only got 1hr to think of a storyline, characters, assign roles and practice the show before doing it (still in that hour). Unless of course it was a bigger project then we got a week or so, and if good enough we'd do it in front of either our whole school or just our year.

Fixed .

Come to think of it, PnP games might actually be a decent activity for practising a bunch of stuff.

Have you ever seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahqu1nd3Zu8?

One of the very best high school plays I ever saw was A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum.