Um why would freeside fight? House treated them worse what with chucking them out of the strip and killing a couple in the process. The kings would probably move in and take over a part of the strip and stay there if the BoS destroy the securitrons or take over them.. They dont see New vegas as theirs, i personally never saw the king say that and they would be idiots to shoot at men in power armour with gatling lasers and gauss rifles. Why would they try and annialate new vegas [spelling fail]? At the most they would take over it and kill everyone else but thats unlikely. They would strip it off all remaining and important tech and move on. Possibly taking control of the securitrons or destroying them in the process. Vegas isnt a technological gold mine, the lucky 38 is. Vegas is a place to gamble and take part in stuff from the old world. The BoS arnt stupid, they know that the only intresting tech they will find is in the lucky 38 and so that is the only place they will touch.

I say 'nay'. I say 'nay' to this entire post. 'Nay'.

Anyway, I'm an independent Vegas supporter, with Mr. House as the runner-up. There's only one thing that bothers me about Mr. House:
His plan to rebuild New Vegas. He recruited three families, the Chairmen are just cool cats, the White Gloves aren't that bad at all (Mr. House recruited them on the condition they wouldn't practise cannibalism), but then there are the Omertas... Mr. House killed a lot of people when he ''civilized'' The Strip, yet he let the Omertas live, and have their own casino? When you ask Mr. House about this he says he recruited the Omertas because they ''reminded him of the criminal activity in Las Vegas before the war''. Mr. House doesn't let people live because they're ''good'' or anything, he lets people live because they remind him of Las Vegas. That doesn′t sound like a philosophy a good leader would have to me. Still, he is intelligent, kind of wants the best for the people, isn′t a glory-hawk and seems like the best hope for humanity.

you have a choice, all the factions have good and bad points, you pointed out one of Mr Houses bad points that hes a total loony! But hes a loony for the good of mankind, unlike the Legion and the NCR.

The NCR try to bring back the old world, like Mr House, but are unpopular due to their taxes and the fact that their the NCR.

Legion are kind of the black sheep of the two, they only really want to kill and conquer. But that makes them appealing because they are more powerful then the other 2 if you guide them.

you misunderstood my point, recruiting the Omertas isn′t going to do any good to the mankind

NCR

Annihilate.

The BoS are stupid though, they're insular, close minded, suffer from a collective superiority complex and are inbred tribals with fancy tech. That's all they have going for them, fancy tech.

They would strip Vegas, the three families would be broken up or at least Vegas' defences would be gone, the city would fall apart without the Securitrons.

You see how the Kings reacted to the NCR? Non hostile people enter the area and they flip out. If the BoS came they'd react far more aggressively. As for fear of power armour, the BoS expect it but as Veronica points out and the NCR showed, that fear is gone. They know what it does, but it's no longer magical defensive stuff, it's just armour, they know about it and they'd fight it. They probably wouldn't win (though given the BoS' hot headedness it wouldn't be a turnout for the books if they did) but they would likely fight...

Personally, I think House's ending is the best because of the following reasons:

A. House soley wants to control the Vegas region. How is a good thing you ask? I'll tell you. A robot who is 'becoming more assertive' CAN NOT be a good thing. NCR and Caesar's Legion both get the most painful punches in the nose. It may perhaps give Caesar a chance to rethink his ego god-king attitude, and the loss of Hoover Dam would make the NCR realize numbers dont equate to power, and with a man like Chief Hanlon (sp?) and Colonel Hsu to argue against the NCRs behaviors, it would allow the NCR to see they need to focus on their homefront. (I can't argue any positives for the Legion back East due to the fact that nothing about their homestead is presented to us.

B. House was the founder of a Pre-War robotics company (RobCo) at the age of 22, he made robots a key piece in American life back then. He single handedly saved Vegas from 77 Atomic Warheads. (With the 5-6 warheads that escaped his grid landing in seemingly unoccupied regions save Black Mountain). House has a track record of proving he's no slouch. He has an established and firm hand on Vegas, he may be firm on the reigns, but as Swank says, Vegas is a wild horse, and you can't just give her her reigns.

C. His mandatory request for you to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel is agreeable, any fan boy who argues they are knights of humanity, they are not Lyons chapter of the Brotherhood. Their endings prove this. They don't want to save humanity, they want dangerous tech so they can keep it, weild it, conquer it. The brotherhood in my eyes are technofetishist cultists who are short sighted beyond anything that runs on high end tech. The sole reason House has you destroy the BoS, and Yes-Man STRONGLY suggesting you do the same as well, is because he KNOWS the brotherhood will assault Vegas, taking countless lives of innocents, and for what? Because House's toys are better than theirs.

If you think in terms of the greatest good for the greatest number of factions in the short term, NCR is probably the way to go. You just need to make certain decisions concerning the rest of the factions: get Papa Khan to change sides, arrange an alliance with the Brotherhood of steel, etc. The NCR is far from perfect, but they espouse freedom, democracy, and rule of law.

House, according to himself, presents the greatest good in the long run, but some of the things he asks you to do make his morals highly suspect. The Brotherhood of Steel isn't just Paladins in power armor, there are some young initiates, and even a kid who's probably still too young to drive. To be honest, I don't trust him.

Caesar is a bit of an enigma, since you only see the Legion at its worst. Their treatement of women is distasteful, as is their reliance on slavery and their barbaric actions (like the Nipton "lottery"). But we have no idea how people live inside its borders. Rome, at its best, offered even its working class (and many of its slaves as well) a level of comfort and safety and amenities that had never been seen before, and would not be seen again for over a thousand years. For all we know, life in Legion territory is devoid of hunger, crime, and many other things that run unchecked in the rest of the world. There's a lot to be said for that.

Well said, Sir! :celebration:



I also fully agree on this. There isn't a single person among the current NCR leaders in the Mojave who I'd just even remotely consider as being acceptable.
Kimball, Oliver, Moore, McLafferty, they are all downright horrible, cynical autocrats.
With the embarassment of being defeated some random wasteland punk, Kimballs presidency, which was after all solely focussed around the Dam and annexing Vegas, surely won't prevail.
And with him, all his coldblooded warhawkpets like Moore and Oliver(well, not him after his accident on the dam wall :hubbahubba: ) will have to go, too, and the more level-headed people like Hsu or Hanlon might gain the opportunity to reestablish the belief in the values Tandi once wanted to spread with the NCR.



′

Not true. There are the Boomers, the FotA, and the BoS





And that alone of course, is more than a justification to slaughter them all, I suppose....
But it perfectly suits to that cyber-zombies'-in-a-fridge belief of having the divine right to decide who's allowed to live in this world and who's not....

It's because they are very likely to attack vegas if they ever regain their strength. It's called a pre-emptive strike.

:no: . It's some supporters of the Mr. House ending who are constantly claming this, to justify their little mass murder action
In fact, in my endgame, New Vegas is already under the control of a Brotherhood Paladin, so no need to attack at all, aside from the fact that neither McNamara is a bloodthirsty lunatic nor is his chapter anywhere even close to having the numbers for challenging an army of Securitron MkIIs.
But some just have to stick to their straws to maintain their delusion, I suppose

well said (as always )! still I'm an Indy Vegas supporter, I explained that earlier. He killed a lot of people when he took over Vault 21. The people he let live and stay in New Vegas, the three families, are the people who reminded him of the pre-war Las Vegas. A leader who lets people live because they remind him of Las Vegas, instead of letting the people live because they are good people, (the Omertas aren't good people) kind of sounds a little weird. Mr. House is an intelligent person (unlike, say, the NCR) but he can't rebuild Las Vegas.

'sigh' I love the way you ignored all of Colonel Martyr's post except a tiny bit then acted as though that was all he said. That's not even taking a quote out of context, it's basically lying.

They would challenge Vegas, of course they would, did you pay attention in game? Since you state your character to be a paladin I can only assume you've played their quests through. They are power hungry tribals who haven't changed since the start. They still think they're the strongest roughest toughest nuts in the wasteland, with the dubious exception of McNamara and believe they can take on anyone, Hardin is of course much more bloodthirsty than the more patient McNamara but what, do you really think they'll just sit down there and slowly waste away?

Yeah they're dying out, yeah they're inbred but sooner or later they'll launch an attack, even if it's just because they have to. If you convince them to start building up as a viable faction it will be much worse.

They live by a codex, like their Bible. A 'holy book' which dictates their actions in any and every scenario. Their actions being 'see technology, take it'. They're not smart, they're not cunning, they're not even tactically astute. They're tribals with power armour. Fools with big guns who worship a dying creed made at a time when they were nigh untouchable but as Veronica says herself, the wasteland is changing. They don't face individual tribes armed with spears, they're facing what are effectively nations, city states. Well armed groups who can easily go toe to toe with them, look at the NCR at Helios One. BoS had it, NCR wanted it, NCR took it. They don't even seem that fazed by their losses there beyond "seems a shame to lose a few guys to take this place then leave it be". The BoS are crippled by it and driven underground. For some reason this doesn't penetrate their power armoured skulls and they STILL think they can take all the tech they want.

You're right, head to head against MKII securitrons, they'd lose. Against the MKI's? Tough call, they'd certainly do enough damage, the more important question is would they try?

Answer is god yeah. Of course they would. There's so much precedent for it it's unreal. They'll throw their lives away for weapons and those robots? They're walking talking weapons. The BoS isn't noble, nor is it an intelligent organisation, it has some people with brains but as a whole is too narcissistic and self obsessed to be realistic in the wasteland. They got the bloodiest nose of all time at Helios One and most of them have already forgotten and want to start a war with a fairly powerful nation...no, sorry. They're just too thick and obsessed with shiny weapons to avoid Vegas.

I just don't like quoting such long posts in their entirety, because it makes reading through the threads really cumbersome



Erm, no. You're constantly trying to present your assumptions as facts. and no matter hard you're trying, that won't succeed.
And yes, I did pay attention, and my observations don't match yours of wild speculations about inbreeding, coloring them as mad tribals with no sense for rationality, etc, while there is nothing to back that up.
You're just desperately trying to construct a justification for your actions, and fail to see how ridiculous you're getting at times.
You have to do this, because the person who told you to wipe them out, didn't deliver a sensible rationale for it, other than "There is no room for these people in my world, kill them".
So, you try to fill this void House has left you here, mainly by insinuating the worst of the worst, in terms of their perceived motives and intentions, but apparently this is not easy.
Because in the end, it's still you who slaughtered a complete settlement of men, women, old and young, for crimes they did not commit, and deep inside, you're well aware of that
Sleep well, my butchering friend

You could say the same thing about the Enclave at the Oil Rig.

These guys are not the Brotherhood from 3. These fellas may not attack Vegas immediately. But if they ever regain their strength, they most certainly will. That would result in more innocent deaths than the destruction of their bunker.

The BoS arnt insane phycos who will throw themselves on the enemy and kill themselves for their codex. Honestly have you talked to them? Most are normal people, following a code and their family. Mcnamara is a clear example of this. Hardin is an idiot.. I have never seen any instance apart from the end of Veronicas mission [every faction has its idiots] where the brotherhood actually kill people for tech.

While house orders you to mass murder a large group of people. Think of people like Veronica and the younger scribes being cold heartedly killed for what might happen. He takes that action for granted. And house is not always right, was he right to kill the kings if they try and help people with the NCR. If mankind needs a 200 year old brain in a tube surrounded by machines who wipes out groups of people mercilesssly, and who has no idea what its actually like in the mojave. At least the BoS and NCR and legion are actually human. And humanity isnt in such a bad situation as they need him to save mankind. Maybe in fallout 3 but in the mojave the situation for mankind is much brighter with taxes and settlements being rebuilt.

-I simply do not get it. If the Brotherhood ever get rebuilt as a faction, they WILL attack vegas, and we did see how they razed the Pitt. For significantly less tech. And the Pitt was ravaged by the BoS "good guy".

The very essence of BoS is that they take tech. If its handed over nicely, fine... if not, they wil pry it from your dead hands. And as we saw with Archimedes they will absorb almost any losses to secure tech they deem important enough. A horde of Securitrons, a tower with lasers capabale of shooting down nukes? Its the wet dream of any BoS chapter. They are arrogant techno-fascistic xenophobes. The weapons tech of the world is safe only in their hands. And they haven't changed.

Can anyone here give me a single reason for BoS NOT to attack Vegas if they got powerfull enough?

I've said it before, it's justified and I've said it before, I'd have made the same move (shock horror for you here, my first playthrough was independent, I killed the BoS. You're right, I'm a sheep, what can I say? erm...wait...)

It is justified. As for the BoS being inbred tribals, well they never absorb anyone outside of their group in, it's surprising more of them aren't wandering around with teeth in their hands. They don't accept outsiders (unless it's the PC, mostly because the PC can basically walk through lava without a burn) and I don't see any magical cloning facilities...

It is the worst case scenario, that's the point. Best case scenario is they go back on all precedents and overnight they change into wondrous people.
That just isn't likely. They're bandits, they steal technology that they want simply because they believe only they are worthy of owning it. They're willing to murder anyone who stands in their way (hell, the aforementioned exception to their no strangers thing has an explosive device strapped to their chinny chin chin) and will kill you if you refuse to talk to them.
Seriously. I went there, they came out and said come in and give us all your stuff, I declined and they tried to kill me. Now granted they may have had ESP, I was intending to go in there and murder them all but they still decided to kill me because I refused to give them all my stuff and enter their base.


I also don't understand your seeming peeve with House, you are aware every faction either murders regularly or condones doing so except for House and Yes Man dependent on your actions. Yes Man wants you to murder at least one group and House requires you to murder one, maybe two if you play your cards wrong. The NCR are worse than the BoS for taking what isn't theirs (Helios One? They want it, someone else has it, so they murder them all, what friendly fellas). Killing House because...well because they want Vegas, their unending desire to muscle their way in to as much territory as physically possible without actually doing anything with it. They are land grabbers, led by morons with the tactical ingenuity of a newt.
Legion is worse in terms of killing people, let's face it their Raison d'être is pretty much capture the world, at least in the Mojave all they seem to want to do is take over and oust the NCR, House, BoS and anyone who stands against them.

Have fun on your high horse, we're all laughing.

Ever thought why is BoS in a war with the NCR?

Well, the Three Families, as I come to understand it, based on All Roads and In Game Dialogue, the Families didnt remind him of Vegas, it's more he offered power to anyone willing to sit and listen to him, their unique current identities are because House has educated and rehabilitated them to be as the people who ran those particular casinos before the war. I can't justify the blood shed when he started cleaning house (no pun intended), but I DON'T recall Vault 21 being killed, he won it in a game of Blackjack IIRC, and he forced them all out, save Sarah and Sheldon, who pleeded him to let them keep the top floor at least. Also, I think he can rebuild Vegas, I don't care so much for the promises of Space Travel, which is likely possible, seeing as the Bright Brotherhood went to some far away planet, and some even came back to save NoVac. I think with some characters in the game we meet, and the destruction of the Fiends, and if NCR plays nice, House could make Vegas fully rebuilt, not right away mind you, but I think after a few declines and increases in income, House could have the first Pre-War city outside NCR back up and running. Of course, I'm not so blinded by fan boy ideals to not recognize there are a myriad of unpredictable factors at play.

House is pro-Vegas and not concerned with much else- other than a steady supply of customers. He'd only look to continue to rig the political map around him to benefit the strip.

Yes Man is probably gonna be House after he gains some assertiveness. That's just my opinion. But in any manner, you are human and you are susceptible to corruption.

Caesar's Legion .... how is it that the one time I see my state in a video game, it is home to a bloodthirsty slave society? *sigh*
Arizona is more inhospitable across that river than Nevada is. They probably survive by being as rigid and nasty as they are.

I've spent time in the desert and alone in the desert. I understand that you need a society to survive in such a desolate place. While they aren't perfect, I think the NCR offers the best societal structure to survive in. I would imagine that the desert would prevent them from really expanding much further- they are already stretched thin as it is.

But I do like the idea of city states or tribal states. I do like the idea of a fractured region without central rule. I guess that really leaves Mr House as the winner?

I think Mr. House is the best alternative if you think about choosing sides before Hoover Dam battle, but in the long run I don't think it's good since NCR is going to expand and there would become a time when Vegas is a small, isolated enclave in the middle of an NCR-controlled Nevada.

And the Legion... Well, I always liked the Enclave even though their rule would mean losing freedom, but Caesar's Legion is just too much for me. It seems that the Legion is just a massive gang of Raiders whose view of authority is even worse than any form of anarchy we've seen in Fallout.

If you had paid some close attention, you would know that McNamara's people are very bitter about the former Elder who was willing to sacrifice countless lives for Helios. They ARE very interested in military tech, but they are NOT a bunch of suicidal maniacs.
About getting powerful, they will simply never get to this point. They' got their backs handed by the NCR, because they are very few in numbers.
They are an elitist circle, and very reluctant to open themselves to outsiders, Veronicas quest underlines that again.
So how do you imagine these people being able to challenge a Securiton MK2 army, which had driven off both NCR and Legion with ease?

Yes Man.

-I'd rather be safe than storry. Who knows. BoS might at some point learn the finer points of "subterfuge and subtelty". I'd rather deal with them before I have to worry about that than before. Because No matter what. They will crave House's tech till they get it.