unless people were playing on pansy mode i dont see how kicks were to overpowered. you only had enough stamina for 2 maybe 3 kicks and they barely pushed higher level enemies back like the vampire knights, so unless they were right next to the ledge or directly infront of a spike wall they wouldnt do anything at all. the warrior class with the shields was a bit to easy and could have been harder but i played as stealth or mage guy mostly anyways and you died pretty quickly if you got surrounded..........i especially hated those weird guys with the spiked colors that could climb walls.........hated them.

personally i would love to see the combat system of warband but a bit more fluid like dark messiah or oblivion.

overall i was very happy with oblivions combat system. the only things i changed with mods were mainly recoil and using a mod that added shield bash. thats really about it. now for the magic system i had way more fun with dark messiahs telekinisis and ice patches than oblivions rather boring damage type system. except for the visual changes there was nothing fun to do. midas magic was essential in my game just to have some diversity with the magic system.

dark messiah had probably one of my favorite dungeons of all time. i havent played anything yet that can beat the necropolis for atmosphere and giving me a fear of heights.

edit: there was one game worse for heights and that was a level in jedi knight 2. narsis or something.

i like the magic portion of DM.

i hope the combat requires tactics

kicking should be put in game, but it shouldent be as overpowered, it should be effective on shields and smaller monsters. it still shouldent be as powerfull as it was in dm though. other cool stuff from that game like clashing swords and kill moves on downed enemies are welcome in my book

charging up magic would be awesome aswell. it would mean that advanced skills are failable due to not charging them up, yet still available (rather than the stupid- you must be level 50 to use this spell, if you are 49 then thats too bad! or morrowinds random failing that is set on a number) i like how dm allows you to freeze the ground to make it slippery- inventive stuff like that could land oblivion game of the year

i also hope some weapons can be thrown, like one handed spears, small axes, daggers, shurikens, knives (maybe even stones) (note that shurikens would work well as a tiny blade to slice people with)

i hope that combat is "realistic" by giving the player an infinite number of options on what they want to do

look what happened in new vegas with those spears. they disappeared right after they hit :bonk:

I would love to be able to throw my main weapon and then retrieve it. It would help to make combat so much more intense/varied.

I put it in and played for an hour after reading this topic to re-familiarize myself with it. Some of you guys are too quick to dismiss everything from the game if you didn't like it. Especially kicking! You certainly couldn't kick your way to victory in Dark Messiah, because they had a good stamina system that wouldn't let you. There weren't stray spike racks all over the game either. There were some great features that they should look at for Skyrim just to know what other game studios are going for. You can't tell me you don't want ANYTHING from this list. Things like:

First person walking and strafing animations were much better than TES, and the camera tilts for strafing.
You can use the jump button to vault over low walls or climb up areas you can reach.
Kicking like Daggerfall, can also be used by enemies.
Physics puzzles and breakable items that are much improved over Oblivion.
Inflamable objects char and flare up when placed in fire.
Knocked down enemies can be impaled or have their head smashed by blunt weapon.
Solves DF/MW/OB combat backpedal by not letting you run backwards, only walking backward. Seriously, they shouldn't let you run backward in TES. The Dodge skill will make its comeback.
Extensive and highly detailed first person body animation, you can see your feet and legs and torso, in addition to your arms.
You can turn your head independently of your body when standing still, so you don't get the awkward pivot on a point look. Your body readjusts when you turn far enough.
Large enemies, larger than Ogres from OB.
Flying enemies.
First person animation for handing things to people.
First person animation for dragging people and being dragged.
First person animation for being bucked off horse.
Flurry attacks.
Charge attacks.
You can disarm people by aiming attacks at their arm.
You can break their parrys.
Ice can freeze enemies or ground.
Spells can be guided to targets.
Equipped spells can be seen on your hand.
Trap spells.
Flamethrower spell.
Chain lightning.
Can cast multiples of the same spell at the same time.
Extra damage from lightning when enemy stands in water.
Spell to permanently shrink your enemy.
Backstab instant kill for normal enemies.
Tons of items to pick up and throw. Chairs, barrels, boxes, pans, oil jars, etc. The interface for this fits well into the flow of combat.
Well animated sprinting. Have TES games ever had sprinting?
NPC's that aren't ugly.
Functional ladders with animations for use.
Operable windows.
No loading for interiors of buildings.
Better hair styles.
First person animation for getting out of bed.
Burnable bodies with charring.
Throwing knives.
Operable cranes.
Out houses.
Fire arrows.
Supports can be broken.
Animated death by fire, flailing in agony with screaming.
Meaningful short term fatigue, you can't sprint or perform kicks when you're exhausted, and your attacks are terrible.
Enemies who call out for help when they see you.
Weapon crafting.
Time doesn't pause for inventory menu.
Collapsible floors.

Telekinesis that lets you throw people around at will, totally awesome.
Sprinting would be a good addition. Everyone should be able to sprint but the speed and distance of which should be determined by athletics among other factors.

Dark Messiah combat might be repetitive... but it's still MUCH better than Oblivion's combat.
I'd rather have a combat system cloned from Dark Messiah, than another game with Oblivion combat.

...but of course, I'd like an even better system if possible. I'm sure they would be able to pull it off if they put enough thought and work in it.

One thing I liked about DM was the ice / frost bow that layed down a sheet of ice that Orcs and stuff would slip on... funny stuff.

Personally I think they just need the different power attacks that DM had, and better animations will go a long way too.
Adrenaline meter was fun, but I don't think its necessary, it might turn into too much of a action rpg.

But the combat needs some reinvention

Yeah. I'd say that even though Dark Messiah's combat could get repetitive, it's the least repetitive combat I've ever seen in a game. Ever.

Thanks to all who support this idea. I really want a system like that! I wonder if the game will have be-headings and decapciation and gory stuff like that, it would be awesome.

DM combat was so much fun, same with mount & blade, and they used pretty much the same "attack-depends-on-where-you-move" thing (though Mount & Blade had a better system, it made the attack according to where your mouse was at; left, right, up or down, though it would be harder with consoles & first person) system.

Also, make each race have unique attack animations... Orcs would deal slow but heavy hitting attack without finesse, while wood-elves strike quickly with finesse attacks with less power, for example.

Also, make fire what it really is; Fkin DEADLY. In DM you could pretty much instakill a normal human with fire attacks, while in Oblivion, you gotta cast the spell many times and he wont even start to burn or react to the burning. Same with Shock, Frost and everything else.
If you shoot a shock spell in to the sea, I wanna see dead fish. And I want to be able to ice-skate my way over the sea & rivers by freezing them with frost.

Be creative, Bethesda!

I like the combat with swords, but the kicking I could do without. It made the game boring, you could simply kick your way to the end of the game and nothing else.

Or only allow people using hand to hand to kick.