Wait a sec, let me get this right what seems to be said here is this-
Carmack and team decide to make a game able to work on consoles of 2005ish, and thus pc's of similar power and capabilities of that time.
Computers evolved and improved over the last few years (not as much as previous decades, my PC is circa 2006 with a ATI4850 but i can still play games like crysis 2 and high FPS with good detail, compared to previous years my pc at 5 years old could hardly have been considered capable to use a new game at minimum detail).
Now by the argument thats going around not only should this game be HIGHLY efficient AND stable on consoles, it should also be doing the same for PC's, afterall they were developed equally focusing on similar levels of technology. However that argument only holds water IF Id focused equally on Consoles and PC, and the warning 'Saving content. Please do not turn off computer.' implies that this is not the case........ like really... how many people turn off a PC while its in game, let alone when its saving?

What a horrible thing to say. Sounds like your brains drivers are out of date and need updating.

Jesus!

Jeez, you too? How old are you people?

There's room on board for everyone folks.

For your sake I hope life doesn't deal you a blow and the only one at hand is one who doesn't "do" compassion.

Has there been any good solution for slow texture loading, when looking with different directions with mouse? I have the BF3 beta drivers installed with 460GTX

Well, some of the consoles were already deprecated when they came out. The xbox 360 had a decent graphics processor and a decent CPU when it came out, but only 512MB of RAM (gpu+cpu)

The GPU of the PS3 was a joke when the PS3 came out in mid 2007, it was just a slightly buffed up GTX 7800. We had Geforce 8800 GTX back then.

And to be fair, I don't think that the PC Hardware has significantly evolved for the last 6 years. Quite the contrary. If I compare PCs from 2005 to PCs from 1999 and then compare today's PCs with those from 2005 I see much bigger progress from 1999 to 2005.

I think it's not consoles that are killing the PC as a superior gaming platform, it's the lack of exclusive titles. We had them exclusive titles in 2004, when Far Cry, Doom 3 and Half Life 2 were there... Yes there was an xbox 1 version of those games, but these versions came later as a spin off.


In general, I am greatly disappointed by rage and id tech 5. I expected id software to take dynamic lighting a whole leap further, but they actually degressed to light maps.... dudes, we had this in 1999, remember Quake 3? Seriously, Doom3 / Quake 4 look better than Rage.

It should not matter what hard ware looked like when they started developing the game. A five minute test on current hardware would of made them aware of these issues.
Which leads me to believe they knew full well of all these issues and decided to release the game anyway. they knowingly screwed us.
It is the responsibility of the developer to keep up with hardware. Other developers do it, it is not impossible. It is the industry norm, people need to stop defending id for delivering a sub minimum product.

The motivating factor for most of the companies is making a profit. And by looking at other cross platform titles you can almost assume that if Rage were to sell 1 million copies that only around 50,000 to 100,000 would br for the pc and the other 90% will be xbox and ps3. Even though Id has mainly focused on pc in the past times have changed and now investors want more bang for their buck. That leaves us pc gamers holding the short straw when it comes to focus on gaming platforms. I so wish that weren't the case but from the articles I have read about game development, most companies see pc gamers as a small albeit vocal MINORITY. That is why companies like NVidia and Amd are just barely holding on.
Most console gamers wouldn't even spend 5 min getting a game to work and would get upset if they had to download a 500mb patch to play their game. They would just take it back and exchange it for another. Being a pc game though seems to means you need to have the patience to figure it out on your own. Or that you enjoy reading all of these forums.

What is with people always blaming the drivers?

Not sure what fantasy I ever mentioned, but developers changing their minds during development are pretty common. They would have had plenty of time to alter their focus had they seen anything wrong (and that's the key note there). A product's development process is not really comparable to a car at a hundred kilometers and hour or a man jumping off a building, because I guarantee they had meetings, adjustments mid-development, and talks about how everything was going. At one of those all it would have taken was for someone to perk up and say something about a possible underestimation on PC growth and they could have taken a step back and figured out how to adjust. Would it have been work? Of course, but there are games that come out in half the time RAGE was under development and don't have near the problems or lack of PC support.

Now don't mistake what I'm saying here. For all I know someone did say something and they decided to just continue with the course, which is not unheard of at all. I highly doubt id saw all these things PC consumers have taken issue with during development and decided they'd just ride it out. I think the most baffling part is how they didn't see any inkling of the problems encountered on launch. If it had been one AMD card line, for example the 5000 series, that was screwing up, that'd be one thing. However it is such a wide range of card series (to include even nVidia cards) that you can't help but wonder what in the world they were developing and testing the game on.

As for hardware growth in the past six years compared to the years prior to that, 1999 to 2005 was definitely large jumps in technology, but keep in mind that if you went back about six years from that, 1993, most people didn't have a home PC (at least any place I lived or visited, haha). Things have really taken off over the years and growth has slowed, but there has still been substantial growth in the PC industry from 2005 to 2011; even more if you're directly comparing the consoles to the average PC themselves.

I can see a lot of the merits in RAGE and it is just a shame that the game has this much trouble on launch. I, myself, can't seem to make the game load out of Mutant Bash TV (which seems to be the bane of a lot of people I've noticed), so I can't progress unless the game decides to play nice.

No it never was better then what was in pc's, the 360 was almost equal to a decent pc, but a fully loaded one it couldn't compare

The ps3 was already out dated Gpu wise when it launched.

What I think happened is that John Carmack and ID Software had a momentary lapse of insanity when they said "hey, we can do this game for both consoles AND PC's at the same time!" They forgot that their CORE fanbase is on the PC. They may have some fans on the consoles, but I guarantee that even those fans probably came from playing their PC games. They had a momentary lapse when they forgot that PC's aren't stupid, and we don't easily forget infractions like the Rage release. If ID Software fraks us up then they pretty much frakked them out of business. Console gamers won't keep ID in business because console gamers have no idea who they are. But if we don't buy their next title because they never fixed Rage to work 100% on the PC then they'll be out of business. So I'm sure that those who are asking for refunds because it doesn't work are being hasty, because they're going to fix it eventually. They're going to go to ATI and NVIDIA and say "hey, your driver support svcks you NEED to get on the ball with this or you're screwed too!" It's one thing for ATI to mess up Brink, but this is like the biggest AAA PC release in a long time...they frak this up and don't fix it they'll likely regret it as well.

Hopefully ID learns from this mistake and dedicates Doom 4 100% to the PC and goes back to outsourcing their console ports.

I don't know what you guys are talking about, RAGE runs excellent for me. Right out of the box. Intel Core2 @ 3.16 ghtz, with Nvidia 1GB GTX, Gigabyte mobo (UDP3), and 4GB of SDRAM, Win7 home x64. Not a fancy system by any means and RAGE runs great. Optimize your PC and quit complaining, the problem is your PC.

yup...

Something to remember, though, is that there are more people that own both a console and a PC then one or the other. Very few have things segregated that black and white. I, for one, would have bought RAGE for one of my consoles if I didn't have a brother to play online co-op with (haven't even bothered to make that attempt since it is anyone's guess how the single player issues are effecting that side of things right now). That was a definitive selling point for me.

Personally, before RAGE popped on the scene, I'd never really bothered looking into who made Doom/Quake/Wolfenstein. I just played them and left it at that. The problem is that issues, errors, and mistakes on the order of magnitude that RAGE and id Software are having make a much bigger impact towards people knowing your company then a great game ever will just because of how fast negative press and word of mouth (or forum as is the case) spreads. I, for one, am not passing definitive judgement on the companies involved with this launch because of the launch. I will reserve my judgement on who is worth while when the week is up and there is, or is not, a patch for RAGE itself. I give credit to ATI for moving as fast as they did to correct some, obviously not all, player issues by trying to push out driver patches left and right in the span of the day the game hit shelves; they're not even the developer losing the possibility of future consumers of a product. For as many people that say id Software should shout at ATI to get with the program, how many think ATI is looking at id Software and shouting at them to start owning up for their software launch issues. I never had a problem with my video card drivers until RAGE, as an example.

Remember, two days is an eternity for a consumer more times then not. For a developer facing launch issues this large that could be easily the span it takes to get everyone on the same page, sitting down, and gathering up as many different issues as possible on forums such as this, before settling on where to even begin.

Probably the biggest thing I can't seem to understand is why, after all these years of various products having faults on launch of varying degrees of magnitude, has no one thought to assign a group to do one thing and one thing only; provide feedback to the forums/consumer base about the what, when, where, how, and/or if on attempts to iron out problems like this. I can't understand how companies can expect people, who have extremely varying degrees of patience, to react calmly, rationally, or even politely when they provide no insight as to whether or not anything is even being talked about. Fact is, I'm, and others I'm sure, just assuming id Software is looking into anything at all by the silence. It is just as likely, because we haven't had definitive feedback, that they're doing absolutely nothing, but weighing portfolios and ideas for the next project. Hearing nothing is hearing nothing. It doesn't matter if the company is, or isn't, doing something about a problem. If people hear nothing, they can only assume it means nothing, or, at best, means somethings; but even the hopeful dwindle when nothing is said as the days go by.

I have faith, since it has only been two days, and I know how hard it can be getting things rolling when chaos befalls something, but if, in a week for instance, no real back-and-forth feedback comes up from anyone, even I might start changing my attitude on it all.

EDIT: All references to 'company' or 'companies', unless otherwise stated, are referring to companies as a whole, not necessarily id Software or the companies involved with RAGE and its launch.

What i'm wondering is what ATI and to a lesser extent nvidia since theirs seem to work driver version the testers (if there were any) had running that made the game seem ready for release. If there are ID or bethesda workers who know the answer please let us know, as it wouldn't be the first time i've had to go back a few drivers.
Next what impact did bethesda have on Ids decision to release the game? It seems console versions worked out of the box but pc has been something else entirely. Was it decided that a simultaneous release for all platforms was more important than making sure that all versions were working/playable?

I have what seem to be the standard issues that come with ATI and this game, i won't repeat them as they are all over the board. And yes i know that more than likely ATI/AMD's habit of making drivers incompatible with reality is at least partly at fault. However, at the same time in ATI/AMDs defence, testing for 5minutes on a pc with their cards would've revealed these issues to Id/Bethesda, it's not like the bug/s is difficult or rare to duplicate, nor is like there are a massive number of graphics card makers around anymore. Honestly i don't care who is to blame, whether it be
ATI/AMD for dodgy drivers
Id releasing a product not fit for release
Bethesda for allowing a product to be released in this state
Or we gamers, who seem to love the pain we get when buying a brand new game only to find it doesn't work. Knowing that certain publishers/developers have a habit of releasing programs before they are ready, and sorry id/bethesda but if you weren't already then you most definitely are in this category now.

TBH i do not understand how developers can make a game for all platforms and expect to do a decent job on each of them and release simultaneous. I'm not saying it's impossible but highly unlikely. When games such as these come out, you will always hear that at least one of the platforms is currently unable or not worth playing till bugs are fixed. Developers and publishers need to stop thinking of how to make a quick buck, the rep hit they take when it explodes in there faces makes me think it'd be a bad business decision.

Next point, if Id did do some testing and found that the game was unstable, at best, on pcs with ATI cards, then why couldn't they have made a warning? Yes, it would look bad if they said 'ATI users may not be able to play during first week/s of Rage's release' but at least 1/ we would know what to expect, 2/ Maybe even appreciate their honesty, unlike the current situation of looking for a scapegoat.

Fact is i could start using the standard "i'm never going to buy xxxxxxx's games in the future"...... but i won't. What i will say is that Id/bethesda have made a mistake that from my perspective puts them at a level of untrustworthy and not worth buying their games until they hit bargain bin. Which is a shame, Because i still play morrowind/oblivion/FO3/FNV (oblivion and later still very buggy) albeit with mods.

Bethesda/Id make your games so that they sell, sure, But make sure they WORK on all platforms that you release them on. That will give you good sales at beginning but also continuing sales. You should know that anyway as it's common sense however it seems certain parts of your companies are somewhat lacking upstairs. Good luck cause you need it.

Maybe ol Cormack should have ensured that his Rage pc release wouldn't be a disaster of an abortion if he wants to produce for the PC. Because this is the last time I'll ever buy something he's made, and it's the last time I'll ever purchase anything on Steam.

thats because its easyer too make on 360/ps3 2 differnt hardwares with the same 2 differnt specs V pcs with a crapload of differnt configs

It should become, if it isn't already, industry standard to take your minimum and recommended settings for software on the PC and run the soon-to-be-retail software on those configurations (at the very least), then decide if it is issue free enough to risk a wide spread release.

@kaz05051
You are no doubt correct but fact is if they couldn't do it, then they needn't have bothered trying. If you do something do it properly or not at all.
You are correct about pc configs however it's not like the issue is some obscure make of video card, or motherboard. The biggest issue seems to be with one of the 2 largest Graphics chipset makers...... like i said in other posts a few minutes of testing on any ATI/AMD chipset may have gotten rid of one of the larger issues before it even started.

He might have said that, but that doesn't give me back my 60 [censored] dollars! This is not a cheap game to deal with this kind of issues and frustration.

Honestly how can Carmack and rest of ID, feel good about screwing their consumers, and fans.

While its frustrating when you are one of the few that are having problems.... it is hardly representative of the entire PC platform. Many of us are actually enjoying RAGE without any problems, hence its not a PC specific problem. Its a hardware/driver problem with your individual PCs. Give it a few days and keep checking your video driver websites. They will have a patch to fix it ASAP.