class action lawsuit anyone? if the patch doesn't fix the issues next week?

Yes you can.

Yeah, $60 bucks is really worth the time and effort to get a refund for a game that will work soon. [/sarcasm]

The game works flawlessly for 20 hours straight and then one hour at a time after that (it lasts permanently if you play the way I do, http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1284052-i-can-verify-the-problem-and-a-temporary-solution/). It actually never stops working, the demands of it just start to surpass the processing power of a non-altered ps3.

Yes it is worth the effort. /nosarcasm

This country is in the midst of an ongoing recession. Money is tight and leisure and entertainment purchases are being kept to a minimum. When people do pay good money they expect exactly what was advertised. At no time was their a television, magazine, or website ad for this game that stated "Plays pretty good for 20 or so hours than issues arise which will require you to do things to be able to play for 1 hour intervals until finally the game is rendered unplayable due to a bad frame rate". Instead it was stated that it played and preformed like all other versions.

If you don't hold companies accountable for their products and behaviors they will do whatever they please to make a profit. Standing in line like a lemming and asking for more as Pete Hines and Todd Howard [censored] in our mouths is not my idea of holding them accountable.

lightknight, read what you're quoting. he's talking a delicious post-patch lawsuit. punitive damages=corrective damages

Lightknight, thank you for your work and posts on the problem.

However, I think you're doing a disservice here by trying to persuade people to play the game the way you do; that's likely to raise more ire than it will calm. No one likes to be told how to play a TES game. I know your intentions are good, but probably want to lay off that particular line of tact.

And yes, if the patch DOES work and especially if it works without requiring people to start over, then you're absolutely right. We got 20+ hours of enjoyment before the lag bug hit and after the patch we can have hundreds more.

But 1) the patch may not work and 2) what about those folks who cannot connect to the internet on their PS3 for whatever reason? Are they not deserving of a refund because they go to play 20hours of a 100+ hour game? Or do you think because they can play 5 characters for 20 hours that gives them the 100+ hours they were expecting?

Let's all hope the patch works! Frustrating not being able to play my 1st character after investing so many hours in him because the NPCs are so laggy on mine they don't react to my talking to them beyond the initial dialogue "hello citizen" etc.

The only ones that win on a class action are the Lawyers. 7 million copies were distributed. After the Laywers 40-50% cut you might get back $3.50 for your game. I worked in Civil law for 13 years, it never goes well for the little guy, but the Lawyers always make good money ! Your best bet even though it svcks is to wait for the patch, it will maske the game playable, and then never buy another new Bethesda game. If one interests you, wait for the reviews on it after its been out awhile. I am new to this, but it seems to me that Bethesda has a reputation for releasing games prior to testing, and have opted to allow the public to test thier games for them by setting up a sub forum where you can post all the info on all the glitches you have found in the game.

I'm just saying that it's a fantastic game, the fix is a simple one and will be made soon. If it's a firmware update then any law suit would be entirely futile.

So any talk of lawsuits is laughable with regards to such a trivial thing. Is that unreasonable to point out? This won't get anyone anything.

The game as it stands is still a lot of fun, albeit frustrating to those who've finally crossed the save file size of doom! Only an hour at a time is pretty bad.

As for my style of play, it is only a solution for individuals who enjoy things I do. I'm not insisting anyone do that, but I am saying there is a completely playable game within the broken game and I have found it and determined its perimeters. Sure, it svcks that my new found game is, "Play skyrim without ruining skyrim", but it tides me over. That and the fact that I'm about to go on a cruise in two days.

I am truly sorry that you guys are having troubles with it. I really do sympathize. I've also created a sort of hard-mode by leveling my character so high via occupation skills rather than a lot of combat skills (fortunately my health potions are numerous). But I have full faith in their ability to fix the issue because, as I've said often, I know what the problem is and fixing the problem should be simple.

Exactly, AND we end up hurting Bethesda in a way that may hinder their ability to make the next game as good as possible. All for chump change in our pockets for a game we actually want to play.

WRONG, 1 year manufacturer warranty that's with most electronics doesn't apply to the retailer. When my old motorola phone broke that I bought from Bell... the Bell store didn't repair / replace it, they gave me the information to go DIRECTLY to Motorola, call them up, and send it in for a replacement. The retailers PAY for those products in bulk, so for them to dish out a bunch of refunds, and not make a dime of profit, would mean Bethesda gets to keep the profits from their bulk order contract, from a bunch of games that were found defective and returned.

The retailer is not liable for the defective product, the manufacturer is. It's what the retailers MAKE SURE OF with certain products and deals, especially when purchase millions of copies of a game in bulk, to then resell to you.

A specific retailers return policy does not alleviate the legal responsibility of the actual manufacturer.

Bethesda may not have made the full price tag in retail sales (what you paid for the game), but it's part of their contract in retail bulk orders to eat the cost if their product ends up not working. Why the hell would any retailer agree be responsible for defective products they didn't make? That means every refund is money they lose, and the manufacturer gets to keep. The same laws put into place to protect you, the consumer, are put into place to protect large chain retailers as well.

This is the sole reason I made the video demonstrating how it's broken. Bethesda replied asking I prove to them it's broken, because to them it was a fully functioning game. Has everyone in the support center come down with a sudden case of Pete Hines Syndrome?

Hey Guys just thought I'd refer you to a thread I'd made relating to this issue concerning your consumer rights. Unfortunately the topic has been locked for one reason or another but I think you will find all the information you need in relation to why you are indeed entitled to return the game. The title has the words "consumer rights" in it.