Magic is too gimpy.

Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:45 pm

Im playing on master difficulty since level 2 .

Im level 41 now and have no problem at all with destruction.

I dont get why people have problems with destruction... Frost trolls which are considered one of the strongest opponents die with 4 dual cast thunderbolts.. Is my game bugged and they die so easily or are people whining biatches who want to one shot everything like melee does with the broken build?
im having the same expirience for the most part. single enemies are cake. mobs require thought. seems the way a mage SHOULD play but i dunno.
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Petr Jordy Zugar
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 10:00 pm

I think the OP points out difficulties to being a mage, not flaws. I've been a pure destructo/conjo mage straight through to level forty on expert, and there were a few hairy battles, but it always felt balanced. If destructo spells costed less or did more, every fight would be ice bolt ice bolt ice bolt dead dead dead crack my knuckles. As for magic not regenning during battles, what the hell, yeah it does, just not when you're charging spells. And cheapter destruction enchantments are more useful than regeneration anyway, backed by a few mana potions and whatever you've conjured. I've honestly never really struggled, and once you get the dremora lord. . . my god. That guy's a tank. I love watching him work, though it's kinda sad the expert conjuration spell is better than the master ones.
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Lakyn Ellery
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 4:19 am

If you want to use destruction,meele or ranged efficiently on expert/master level you need to think about your perk and skills. You cant just go on one damage skill, you need defence spells, better armor and weapons, armor enchants, weapon enchants, skill perks and skill potions to play well. You need to best use of what the game provides to make your life easier.

You can make magic as overpowered as meele with the same alchemy/enchant/smithing synergys: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1275179-2419-armor-6399-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-33-perks-329k-backstabs/page__view__findpost__p__19333960
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Alessandra Botham
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 12:17 am

When people say stuff like "Destruction is fine because I can kill a frost troll easy" it just annoys me. Yea, I killed the frost troll easily too, because it's a single enemy that fights by running straight at you, when you catch it in a stagger chain it just dies. Destruction magic is good for that sort of thing, but inside a dungeon, taking on a group of 3-4 enemies, some of which end up with as much HP as a dragon past level 20, yeaaa....
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Steve Smith
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:54 pm

How many times do I have to say this? Magicka regen bonuses only stack outside of combat. I've heard some people reporting this as a bug, but until I get proof through Bethesda or overwhelming consensus I'm going to assume it was designed to be [censored]. The entire magic system feels stupid barring one or two schools. It feels so half assed, like no one checked the math and they just stamped approval on it.
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Bigze Stacks
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:34 pm

The power of a pure mage peaks around lv 35-45 once you get passed there your spells will stop becoming any stronger while the enemies will continue to increase in power.
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mike
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 12:39 am

Yeah, I wouldn't mind more spells...

But something tells me this will be fixed and overdone in the first DLC...
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Maeva
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 2:42 am

Yea, it definately feels like they didn't think stuff through very well. I find this particularly evident in Illusion. While it has its uses, there is no way to ever run a successful illusionist in the game, since at least a third of all enemies completely ignore illusion anyways, and by the time you have Illusion 100 you're at the point where levelscaling kicks Illusion completely out of being useful.

The power of a pure mage peaks around lv 35-45 once you get passed there your spells will stop becoming any stronger while the enemies will continue to increase in power.

Yea, it's basicly Oblivion all over again. If enchantment and smithing weren't so ridiculous though even fighters would eventually lose their edge because of how the level scaling ruins another Elderscrolls game... :/
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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 6:55 pm

Base mana regen is 3% per second
Base combat mana regen is 30% of your out of combat regen.

So increasing your mana pool and mana regen rate is still beneficial.
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Alan Cutler
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 10:19 pm

How many times do I have to say this? Magicka regen bonuses only stack outside of combat. I've heard some people reporting this as a bug, but until I get proof through Bethesda or overwhelming consensus I'm going to assume it was designed to be [censored]. The entire magic system feels stupid barring one or two schools. It feels so half assed, like no one checked the math and they just stamped approval on it.

if you want to see the different use a high elf's high born ability in combat, that how mana realy should be regening all the time if not faster since most robes are meant to have higher mana regen
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Matthew Barrows
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 10:21 am

Base mana regen is 3% per second
Base combat mana regen is 30% of your out of combat regen.

So increasing your mana pool and mana regen rate is still beneficial.

The problem is that in order for something to be beneficial in skyrim it doesn't just have to be an increase in power, it has to be an increase in power that offsets the increase in power all your enemies are getting because of stupid levelscaling, and that just isn't the case with magic.
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Neil
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 1:28 am

Yeah, I wouldn't mind more spells...

But something tells me this will be fixed and overdone in the first DLC...
Or spell crafting, and more spells.
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john palmer
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 7:14 am

I always play mages/wizards in rpg type games. Even in classic D&D. Mages to me are the most frightening thing to stand up against. Love the feeling of power.

In WoW i played an undead mage my entire career on the game. I loved toying with people in pvp. An ultimate insult i would do is beat someone down and just before they died, i would sheep them thus bringing back up their health, and then finish them off...like giving them 2 chances at me. Anyway, i still have the survivalist nature in me playing as a mage you couldnt touch. I love to kite. And im using that style here as well.

So far i am loving it. I didnt get the game on release day...i got it this past week, so im a little behind from most of you in that respects.
But it still kicks butt. Having fun with it thus far.....but when i get to later levels with this guy, my tune may change...however im not worried cause i know it could get patched or modded....having fun atm.
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Devils Cheek
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 2:30 am

Since the game is only a few days old i suppose alot of people have'nt figured out yet that there are synergies between certain skills. Destruction on its own is gimpy, even if you invest heavily on Magicka every level. Now, if you invest in enchanting aswell, tehe, free spellcasting for 2 schools of magic is what that means.

And, why use robes when you can wear light or heavy armor without any negative effects on spellcasting?


My level 45 pure Destruction mage is pretty much invincible with his free casting of Destruction and Restoration spells. And having an armor rating of 1000+ adds to that invincibilty even beyond of what is necessary on Master difficulty level.
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Jonathan Montero
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 8:34 pm

Alteration should have been designed so that powerful mages in this school can alter the material properties of any other material, depending on skill level. And I mean, high skill levels like 300+ where the caster could turn ground into water or steel into clay or fire into granite or wood into plaster or straw into gold.

Restoration should have opposite function spells too like making the NPCs heart rate slow down super slow so that if he runs, he becomes out of breath almost instantly because of the lack of blood being pumped out of his aorta or back in to his heart through the superior/inferior vena cava. Or hell, A super powerful mage in Restoration could give an opponent tachy/bradycardia. Or the Player could cause the M and Z bands in the muscle fibers of the opponent to lock up with such tension that the opponent would be paralyzed in a sense from not being able to use his muscles. If a player wants to play as a witch, there could be lots of curses the Player could cast, like muscular atrophy/distrophy or tooth decay.

Bethesda should study anatomy and physiology more so they can implement all sorts of cool spells like these.

Destruction is really just elemental manipulation; you're harnessing and controlling the elements which you are casting. So if an opponent is shooting a fireball at you, you could target that fireball quickly and use a spell from the destruction school to extinguish the fireball before it hits you.
Another spell could be used to heat up the weapons the opponents are holding so that it burns their hands or to heat up their armor red hot so that their whole body is charred and burned, unless they manage to remove their armor quickly enough in time.

Mysticism/Alteration (I still wished they kept mysticism) - You should be able to cast a spell to slow down the speeds of the fire balls, frost balls, etc... that the opponent is casting at you.
Someone, like a Psijic or Mystic, who is super powerful and knowledgeable in the arcane arts, could even cast a spell on themselves that makes their body's material transparent so that if you're attacked by an opponent, their sword just goes right through you. This is different from spell shields because those absorb or take up a certain amount of damage points from the attacker, whereas this just makes it so no matter what the opponent is attacking you with, nothing will hurt or touch you because your material body is placed outside the dimension of Mundus but the visual portion of your body remains on Nirn.

I really think mages would be the most powerful and feared people on Nirn if Bethesda's implementation of computer technology was just a lot more advanced and not so redundant when it came to constructing magic in the video game.
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Alyce Argabright
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 9:18 am

I completely agree that Bethesda screwed up spells in Skyrim as you are either seriously underpowered, badly annoyed by spells because they are useless or tedious, and then comes this turning point where from one moment to the next you suddenly annihilate every enemy within seconds, just because you figured out that e.g. removing the mana cost from destruction spells via enchantment turns you from gimp to god.
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adam holden
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 1:57 am

I like magic. It's about using limited tools to accomplish unlimited goals. Feeling like a massive dike to every enemy you encounter means you're doing it right. For example:

Making an enemy necromancer kill all his minions
Paralysis stabfest
Kiting gravelords
Kiting dragons
Stunlock
Making bandits fight and healing the loser to prolong the match for my own amusemant
Turning invisible and humping people while Flamecloak is active(it works)
Slowing/paralyzing people in firewalls

And more. It's not as ludicrously stupidly OP as it was in morrowind, but it's up there. I'm glad aggression level spells got buffed, and Calm still works on the highest level enemies when you dual-cast it. I calmed Krosis with dual cast. Armor and magic regeneration are troublesome, but why should I care? I could do a lot of this naked and with the Apprentice stone. On master. In fact, I do that now fairly often.
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Charles Mckinna
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 10:49 am

I dont think magic is gimpy at all.
if you are interested in tips/builds check this thread http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1280573-magic-only-character/
posted a wall of text there for people insterested in learning.
as for paralysis not working on powerfull mobs, it doesnt work on bosses and SOME liutenants/leaders thats about it... its my best defencive spell, and immensely usefull when kiting/training mobs around my elemental fury ;)
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Robyn Howlett
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 6:08 am

Conjuration is half amazing i guess if that makes sence, the atronaches are overpowered as all hell but necromancy is near useless ... execpt for dead thrall which is too little to late for me.
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ILy- Forver
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 1:21 am

I liked destruction up until I bought the expert spells and realized they are pretty much un-useable without the 75 skill perk to reduce magica cost; and even then I'll still probably use the adept spells. +50% damage is not work 3x the magica cost. I have 320 magica, 40% reduction magica cost for destruction spells and one spell takes 2/3rds of my magica pool, don't even have enough magica to dual cast at all.
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Sharra Llenos
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 9:00 pm

Using the broken enchantment system to overcome the magicka issues of destruction doesn't mean destruction works, it means enchantment is broken.
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Sasha Brown
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 8:42 am

I just wanted to come in here to ask if my morrowind and your morrowind is the same game?

Magic was godmode in Morrowind...
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Crystal Birch
 
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Post » Wed May 16, 2012 7:09 pm

I really like playing fantasy games as a pure mage, and I find myself kind of disappointed by the Elderscrolls games in this regard, because they have just never gotten it quite right. Morrowind obviously was absolutely ridiculous when it came to screwing over mages. Skyrim is doing it too though, in a lot of really annoying ways.

There are several reasons why magic in Skyrim just sort of svcks.

Destruction is really not viable late in the game, especially on higher difficulties. There simply is not enough magicka in the world to kill things with these spells. Rather than becoming more efficient when you get to higher end destruction spells it gets less and less efficient. Sure, impact is nastily powerful, being able to stagger enemies on demand is very potent, but it really doesn't help once every other encounter consists of 3+ enemies that all require more magicka to kill than your character can have.

Illusion is next to worthless. Half the enemies in the game can't even be affected by illusion spells until you hit 100 in it. Since the spells are restricted by level of creature they can afffect, and only animals and humanoids ever get a bonus to that level even if you get the perk that lets you cast illusion spells on anything those things will most likely outlevel your spells. Bethesda got this absolutely backwards. Why create a spell school that can placate or enrage weak enemies that you can simply sweep out of your way anyways? What I need these spells to do is help me defeat the powerful foes - but the game is built so that the powerful enemies can't be affected at all.

Paralysis has the same issue. The reason Paralysis was good in Morrowind and Oblivion was because if you ran into an enemy that was much more powerful than you you could paralyze them to even the odds. Now the game simply states that powerful foes can't be paralyzed. Why would I want to paralyze a weak enemy though? I can just kill them anyways.

The whole magicka regen through perks and wearing robes thing... Not really useful, since in combat your regen bonuses shut down. Yea, that's right. When you're in combat you lose the benefit from your gear if it's enchanted with stuff that would make playing a magic wielder actually possible. For all practical purposes, the huge penulties you take on yourself by wearing robes instead of armor have no real benefit outside of some convenience in between fights. In a fight armor trumps robes even if you are a pure mage, since regen will be identical.

Enchantment is more useful to any warrior than a mage. Staves don't benefit from any weapon skill, and even if they did - what the heck, I feel like its morrowind all over again where your only hope of killing something with offisive spells was to use an item that was enchanted with offensive spells.

Alteration is just as annoying and bland as in the other games. Nobody wants to recast a shield spell every minute, especially if it knocks a gargantuan chunk of Magicka off your bar which is insufficient to fuel combat magicks in the first place. This is even more annoying now that you need to cast in combat to level the skill.

Restoration is kind of worthless too. You can go the whole game without ever using any other effect then Heal, which you have from level 1. You don't really need any of the other Restoration spells. The idea behind the new Absorbs is cool, but the implementation is clashing with the realities of the magic system. In a system where you never ever have enough magicka in the first place the whole idea of fueling defenses with even more magicka just becomes sort of ridiculous.


I would really like to see some tweaking of this stuff. This game would simply be more enjoyable if it wasn't such
You do realize that mages in Morrowind were the most powerful class you could play, right? The power of mages in Morrowind has almost no limit, and that's probably why magic has gotten screwed over in Oblivion and Skyrim. If you think magic was useless in Morrowind you were doing something very, VERY wrong.
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DAVId MArtInez
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 8:26 am

i had thought the whole idea of reworking the magic system was to make it more INTENTIONALLY viable, but its just as ridiculous black and white as it ever was. you still go from useless to god-mode, fluctuating between the two and almost never finding a middleground. you still either abuse the enchanting system to let you cast insanely powerful spells for basically no cost, or you dont and struggle to cast more than 3 fireballs. and you still can use conjuration and never have to fight anything again because your suped-up summons play the game for you. the only that has changed is that there is no spell making and half the effects have been removed.
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daniel royle
 
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Post » Thu May 17, 2012 8:07 am

You do realize that mages in Morrowind were the most powerful class you could play, right? The power of mages in Morrowind has almost no limit, and that's probably why magic has gotten screwed over in Oblivion and Skyrim. If you think magic was useless in Morrowind you were doing something very, VERY wrong.

You do realize that most enemies had insane constant reflect magic effects in Morrowind right, and you were just as likely to kill yourself as you were to kill them. The destruction spells should have greater efficiency as you rank up, not worse. That would be as if the better melee weapon you use, the more it drains your fatigue, which it doesn't anymore unless you use a power attack.
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Alberto Aguilera
 
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