Tullius is closer to the Zurin third of Talos. Ulfric being closer to the Wulfharth third.

And the pc is Hjalti? Makes me wonder if this speculation of PC,Ulfric and Tullius being Talos 2.0 is actually true. It would certainly resolve the Civil war in a similiar fashion to daggerfall, that is a dragonbreak which is plausible since you just killed (defeat?) Alduin, the aspect of the time god. Which the end result will make people remember the three of them as one person.

Anyway on topic
My character join either Empire or Stormcloak based on RP, my pro-empire character believe that the empire is the best hope to defeat dominion, my pro-stormcloak character think that the empire is just an oppressor and cowards, my dragonborn on the other hand is neutral.

As for myself, I support the empire not because I believe that it is completely better than stormcloak or that it is a noble faction. I'm fully aware that they have make mistake and has their shortcomings but at the end, I just found the empire to be the safer bet. I however did not believe that Ulfric is racist or that he's a thalmor agent.

I joined the Legion because I always have been a supporter of the Empire and also "A house divided against itself cannot stand." A divided Empire is BAD FOR EVERYONE, the Empire will only win the next war with the Thalmor if they are united.

If you've been to Old Hroldan and slept there, you get further confirmation on who the Hjalti part is.

this my friend

I actually tend to join the imperials when I play a character in the civil war. This is more for RP reasons. My Argonians tend to join because those are the ones who often were in the military to begin with. I used to prefer joining the Stormcloaks, but they don't fit any of my character's motivations. Gutslit hates Thalmor, but he doesn't want to fight the Imperials just to fight a Thalmor. He doesn't bother with the Imperials because he doesn't care. My Necro Thief/Assassin doesn't care either way. He just wants to steal and play around with dead bodies.

My first character joined the Legion for a couple reasons:

1) I was an Imperial (Silly me thought speech would be important in this game)

2) I went to Winterhold before Solitude, and realized Ulfric can't even control his own city- or he doesn't care about racists and serial killers.

3) I went to Markarth, and realized the terrorist Forsworn are just desperate Stormcloaks. And guess who killed the Forsworn for wanting independence from the Empire? (hint: he's the Jarl of Windhelm)

4) People think Ulfric is just rebelling so he can be High King. I can see why they think this, and I did not see any evidence that proved them wrong (and don't tell me Ulfric doesn't claim himself High King when he wins- he controls all the Jarls, so he'll win the moot easily).

5) I disagreed with Ulfric challenging the sympathetic High King Torygg to a duel. He didn't need to, and by doing so, basically sentenced Torygg to death, since they both knew who would win.

A few points:

1) The rebellion is led by Ulfric. It's not about Ulfric, even though he seems to confuse those things. If it were about Ulfric, he would have declared himself High King. If you talk to people, some of them echo Ulfric. Others seems to make the simple point that they are sick of being told what they can't do

2) That spoiler assumes that the folks that made the spoiler document are correct, unbiased, and infallible in their assemants. Those same people are revealed in the game to be arrogant in the extreme. Why would they be assumed to be the best source of fact? Just because you, the player, found that document? Those people certainly think that the things in that document arer factual. That's all we really know. You assume it is. It's a complex story twist in a game that has 'nothing is black and white' as its theme. The same people that made that document also indicate that they have interesting feelings about the civil war as a whole, and not quite what you'd expect them to think if that person really is their ally

3) There is quite a valid reason for rebellion- the Thalmor have a free hand to do as they wish. No law but their law is applicable. That amounts to an occupying force, not a peace treaty. The persecution of Talos worshippers is not related to Ulfric being or not being anything according to that spoiler. That's a seperate issue. The fact is that the common condition is the elves dragging off Nords for torture at their whim. The Empire allows it. That's a good recipe for rebellion

4) Why would the Empire and Skyrim not be able to aoppose the Aldmeri, a common foe, if Slyrim were to cede from the Empire? You assume that the Empire must fight Skyrim to the extinction of one or the other, or that a common foe doesn't make strange bedfellows?

5) The empire is already falling. A drowning rat must decide to swim for it, or if the boat can be bailed out fast enough to stay on board. Clinging to a dead Imperial dream lends no strength to the foes of the Aldmeri Dominion, and when Imperial law is below a foreign nation's law...the boat is sinking fast

I read threads like this with some amusemant; they are in the main gamer-think instead of: what do we know? what do we suspect? what do we find ourselves assuming? what are the motives? There's a lot of backstory etc, but we usually concern ourselves with simplification to the point of taking much for granted

Because Ulfric is an [censored]?

deleteme

This, and it's obligatory to note once again that "asset" does not mean "ally." It means that the Thalmor find Ulfric's likely actions useful to their longterm goals, i.e., he does and says things that they believe they can use to their advantage. This does not mean that he is in cahoots with them, far from it. All it means is that they've decided that his continued existence and freedom to act is of more value to them than the alternative. This is why they were attempting to intervene in Helgen, because his execution would probably have meant the end of a conflict that they want to see continue for as long as possible.

I just filled in a scenario in another thread that I see as a reason for joining your almost-executioners: You actually feel guilty for some past crime against the empire, and view your execution as a just reward for your crimes, even if that is not the reason the Imperials decide to kill you... The callous actions of the Imperial captain are no worse than what you, a self-admitted criminal, deserve for your past conduct... At the point the Imps tentatively let you go (the one Imperial invites you to follow him to avoid the dragon), you would feel that you are being given a reprieve or a second chance, which would even out the Imperials' disregard for your life a few minutes earlier. The fact that at least one of the Imps involves in your sentence acts modest and apologetic, that he is required to follow his Captain's orders to kill you, would indicate that not all Imperials are bloodthirsty monsters, that at least some of them are willing to forgive your misdeeds, and that an honest wish to repent your past crimes and work towards forgiveness can still afford you a place in the Imperial society...

Looks like this has degenerated into an Imperials vs Stormcloaks debate. No surprise there.

honestly i don't know why any sane person would march to solitude and speak with general to join, also pointing out that you were about to be executed. Of all the ways to join...seems like you'd be fairly likely to get put back on the chopping block.

Actually joining up with them is easily explained though, you could feel the empire has the best chance of fighting alinor united instead of broken up into multiple groups

Somewhat agree with you.

I think its safe to say that most of us hate the Alderli Dominion (not sure if I spelled it right) and I chose to side with the Imperials so Skyrim would remain in the Empire and possibly give the Empire a better chance against the Dominion.

Plus I never like the Stormcloaks as much.

My current character sided with the Empire for these reasons:

1. General belief in a "strength through diversity" philosophy rather than a "true Nord" one, and a fear that non-Nords would be "encouraged" to leave an independent Skyrim.
2. Fear that an independent Skyrim, especially with Jarl Korir in Winterfell, would ignore the College and magical research, or worse, actively censor it.
3. As the Dragonborn and thane of Solitude, can pull Elisif's strings just as effectively as anyone else, and certainly to a greater degree than he could Ulfric.
4. The Thalmor are easier to keep tabs on if they're in Skyrim, especially if you role-play that the fully restored Thieve's Guild is stealing information as well as jewels.
5. And most importantly, that as Dragonborn, that he believes he has a more legitimate claim to the Ruby Throne than that craven pretender Mede II. And once he has the throne, the first thing he intends to do would be to send the Thalmor ambassador in the Imperial City a statue of Talos adorned with the heads of every Thalmor agent in Skyrim and Cyrodiil.
Failing that, he'll use his rank as Legate in Skyrim to make his attacks on the Thalmor(killing Ondelmar right in front of the Markarth court, glitching into the Thalmor Embassy to kill Elenwan) seem like they were sponsored by the Empire, thus provoking the Thalmor into declaring war, hopefully before they're truly ready.

I'd be all for the Stormcloaks if it wasn't for the fact that the Stormcloak Jarls throughout Skyrim seem to all be paranoid, corrupt and/or spineless. The only Imperial Jarl that I really have an issue with is Riften's Maven Black-Briar, but the Stormcloak Jarl alternative is basically in Maven's pocket anyway, and thinks her own son is mentally deranged simply because he disagrees with Ulfric. Siddgeir in Falkreath is a lazy dike, but he's also young and not paranoid like his uncle, who would be the Stormcloak Jarl. He may mature with time.

Honestly, I love the idea of a free and independent Skyrim, but not with the terrible leadership that the Stormcloaks bring to the Holds. I can't see a country in the process of establishing itself as an independent nation benefitting from such poor leaders. The Empire is just the lesser of two evils, in my eyes.

do you want a gameplay reason or a political reason? I will give both.

Gameplay: I have more fun defending Whiterun, killing Ulfric, and storming Windhelm.

Political: Not allowed to worship Talos is a cry baby reason for war. The Stormcloaks are extremely rascist. And the Empire stands a better chance at eliminating the Thalmor threat then the Stormcloaks do. I mean, the Empire has multiple Provinces under their command if they feel like fighting the Thalmor again, but the Stormcloaks have one legion

Well, to be blunt, none of the original Jarls are very good.

Supporting Elisif:
-Ravencrone, who I personally like a lot but apparently is so caught up in her visions that her own housecarl thinks she needs to step down.
-Igmund, a generally incompetent Jarl who doesn't seem to understand the Forsworn problem(and before anyone starts about Igmund, the guy who sells horses at the Markarth stables says Igmund's dad was the one who arrested Ulfric, which means he almost certainly was the one who ordered the execution of Braig's daughter and others, not Igmund. Igmund speaks as if he was there because he probably was. Based on his looks, he was in his late teens/early 20's during the Markarth incident, old enough to understand what's going on but not in any real authority.)
-Siddgir, who drains the entire Falkreath treasury on mead and clothes, doesn't even pretend to run his hold, and cuts deals with bandit groups.

Supporting Ulfric:
-Skald, a bratty man-child who thinks the dragons are Talos' wrath(I find this especially ironic since through my playthroughs Dawnstar has suffered more dragon attacks than every other city combined).
-Korir, a guy who actively campaigns against the only reason his city has to exist anymore, and actively encourages racism against elves in his son.
-Lalia, whose heart is in the right place, but has nothing between those ears of hers.

I don't think the ban on Talos is that much of a "crybaby reason for war" when you think about what happens to the people who don't want to give up their religion. People should be free to worship who they want and not have to worry about being taken from their families and tortured for doing so. One of the reasons the Thalmor want to stamp out Talos worship because they believe men are inferior to mer and thus, a man-god is abhorrent. It's religious persecution based on racism.

Secondly, not all Stormcloaks are racist. Many may be due to the nature of the war, and that's very regrettable, but that's what happens during times of conflict, unfortunately. Look at all the racist propaganda directed at the Japanese during WW2 by the allied forces. That's not a good enough reason to not want to support the Allies during that war, is it? Racist attitudes can and do change. Regardless, the Stormcloak cause itself, which is a free and independent Skyrim nation, is not inherently racist, even if it does attract people who are.

The last point is debatable. The Thalmor are establishing themselves everywhere throughout the Empire, keeping a close watch on everything they're doing. They have a Headquarters right in the heart of the Empire's presence in Skyrim- Solitude. The Stormcloaks would represent more of a rogue element that have the opportunity to perform guerrilla warfare much like the Redguards did in Hammerfell when they seceded from the Empire.

Lalia doesn't seem to have her heart in the right place. She's more than willing to abandon her people if she needs to (her first dialogue when you arrive in her Keep), and while Siddgir is a terrible Jarl for Falkreath, the Hold is run effectively by his Steward, who gets removed and replaced with someone much less qualified (as does Siddgir, shockingly enough) if you decide to side with the Stormcloaks.

Another reason one of my characters joins the Imperials is her hatred of the Thalmor. This may seem paradoxical but by joining the Legion, the Thalmor look at her as someone who isn't out to get them, so their guard is somewhat lowered when they see her approaching. Then she kills them. Being in the Legion allows her to act as Tullius' liaison between the Legion and the Thalmor in Skyrim, which makes her privy to the Thalmor's movements with Skyrim, allowing her to kill and dispose of them in the wilds without witnesses. Tullius seems to be aware she's responsible for their deaths, which is why he's taken to sending her to the Thalmor more frequently. Gives her more opportunities to pick up on their plans and nip them in the bud.

At this point she's wiped out at least 20 different Thalmor patrols, to the Elenwen's outrage and humiliation.

i was at first hell bent on joining the stormcloaks, because the imperials always seemed to be so smug, stuck up, and snobby, youre typical "modernized" type of people. the whole attitude behind having money that people carry with themselves is unsettling and disgusting to me, that whole, "im better then you". when i first played marrowind, the imperials seemed to be that way then, and theyre still that way now, (though i forget in marrowind who it was that was enslaving the khajit). however, the stormcloaks in skyrim seemed as people, layed back, accepting of anyone, until i learned more about them. once i got into windhelm, i saw racism against the dark elves, and the argonians, and i cant side with that either. i cant stand racism, or segregation of any kind to any kind. i wish there was a third option to stay neutral, or take over both factions, the imperials and the stormcloaks, so you can be named high king of skyrim.

which is why i need this game on pc "theres a mod for that" lol

however for my first play through of skyrim, i think im going to go stormcloaks, even though the nord people are somewhat racist, i dont share that same belief, but what i do understand is the freedom to worship any god you wish without having to abide by a peace treaty trying to abolish the worship of a certain religion. not only that, i share the belief of being apart of the land, and its life, so, as a nord character in skyrim, im not racist like the other nords, but i see a skyrim to be shared by all people.

I don't see Ravencrone as much of an issue really, and her visions may actually come as a benefit. I agree that she needs to listen to her people more often, though. You make valid points about Igmund, but consider the alternative- a member of the highly corrupt Silver-Blood family. The issue with the Forsworn is delicate, but Thongvor wants to go in recklessly and enslave every Forsworn in Cidhna mine. He is more concerned with retribution than looking for a more amicable solution, imo. I did address my thoughts on Siddgir, but it was in an edit that you probably missed.

Continuing with the Stormcloak Jarls that weren't mentioned; I don't mind Vignar much, but Balgruuf seems to be much more level-headed, by not being caught up in petty feuds between clans. Sorli also doesn't seem too bad, but Ravencrone seems more useful with her visions. Brunwulf is by far superior to Ulfric for Windhelm in my eyes; Ulfric has let Windhelm fall into disrepair and social decay by ignoring rampant discrimination and serial killings, and has pretty much drained Windhelm's coffers in support of his war, apparently not caring much about how that impacts his own city's people.