Are draugr nedes? : V - Skyrim

» Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:46 am

I guess Nords are superhuman after all

Of course they are, at least the ancient ones were. Ysgramor wielded both a shield and a 2H axe, AND he ate soup with a fork. So either they were superhuman, or else they had three arms and invented the recipes for Campbell's Chunky soups.

» Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:00 am

and we know that the dragon war happened before ysgramor came to tamriel.

I don't think we know this at all, in fact the book "Dragon Wars" contradicts it, as it states that the Dragon Cult was brought to Skyrim by Ysgramor and the people that came with him. Only later did it become so powerful and oppressive that the Nords rebelled and took it down.

» Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:24 pm

I don't think we know this at all, in fact the book "Dragon Wars" contradicts it, as it states that the Dragon Cult was brought to Skyrim by Ysgramor and the people that came with him. Only later did it become so powerful and oppressive that the Nords rebelled and took it down.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Skorm_Snow-Strider%27s_Journal They believed that the dragon cult was wiped out in the war. This is proof that 1.the war happened before the atmorans wiped out the elves, and also they show us that they had the thu'um, and men learned the thu'um during the war. More proof that the dragon war happened before the return of the 500. 2. that Ysgramor was not a cult worshipper, and that the cult started in Skyrim. Because the war happened in Skyrim, and they said they believed the cult was wiped out during the war.

Conclusion: Dragon war happened before the snow elf defeat. Ysgramor did not bring the dragon cult. The dragon cult originated and stayed in Skyrim. The dragon war book is wrong. Very wrong.

» Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:17 am

nvm

» Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:11 pm

The book is wrong. How could Ysgramor be the one who brought the worship when 1. He wasn't the first atmoran to come to Skyrim, and 2. The dragon priests recieved their power from the dragons who were in Skyrim, not atmora. and 3. Because the atmorans killed the LAST OF THE DRAGON PRIESTS when they came to Skyrim as is evident in the seige on the dragon cult?

That also supports that men came from Skyrim, because if they didnt, then how did they have the dragon cult? The war happened in Skyrim, and dragons gave the mortals power and they became dragon priests, which is how the cult started. But if the religion started in atmora, how could they have dragon priests? The dragons were in skyrim, and the war happened there, not in atmora. The elder scroll shows us that. So the dragon cult had to have started in skyrim. Then the nords went to atmora, then they went back to skyrim which is when they defeated the elves. That also explains why the atmorans had the dragon language and the thu'um. And the cult must've stayed in Skyrim, because seige on the cult shows that they were still in skyrim, and they "survived" there, which would suggest the atmorans were not of the cult.

It doesnt make sense for Ysgramor to be in the dragon cult because they killed the dragon cultists in Skyrim, and the religion started in Skyrim, not atmora, since the religion started from the dragons who gave the priests their power, and the dragons were in skyrim.

The journal from the Siege on the Dragon Cult shows that a group of cultists were holed up in Forelhost in 1E 139. That's in King Harald's time, THIRTEEN generations down from Ysgramor. I don't see how that proves that the Dragon Wars took place before Ysgramor's time.

And duh, yeah, we know the Dragon Wars happened in Skyrim. But the Elder Scroll only tells us that it happened there, it doesn't tell us when nor is it proof that it happened before or after some other event, nor does it prove that the cult only existed in Skyrim or that dragons only existed in Skyrim. Your arguments seem to rest on those two things being fact and I don't see how you've proved any of that.

» Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:36 am

The journal from the Siege on the Dragon Cult shows that a group of cultists were holed up in Forelhost in 1E 139. That's in King Harald's time, THIRTEEN generations down from Ysgramor. I don't see how that proves that the Dragon Wars took place before Ysgramor's time.

And duh, yeah, we know the Dragon Wars happened in Skyrim. But the Elder Scroll only tells us that it happened there, it doesn't tell us when nor is it proof that it happened before or after some other event, nor does it prove that the cult only existed in Skyrim or that dragons only existed in Skyrim. Your arguments seem to rest on those two things being fact and I don't see how you've proved any of that.

No, but the people in the book say they thought the last of the cult was destroyed during the war and that was in Skyrim. That shows that the cult had to have been only in Skyrim.

Edit: There are two different groups of dragon worshipers apparently. The one I'm speaking of is solely in Tamriel. See below.

» Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:32 pm

This should shed some light on things. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Cult I was wrong about the dragon cult only being in Skyrim, but there seems to be two different cults or groups which is what is confusing people. 1 is the malevolent one ruled by Alduin. The other is the "good" one who still worships akatosh. If it did happen this way, then it should be noted that these migrations were done before Ysgramor. Ysgramor was not the first one to reach tamriel.

Much of Ysgramor's life is clouded by myth and poorly kept records. It is suspected that Ysgramor is credited with the deeds of several early Nordic kings.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ysgramor#cite_note-PGE1S-4} Most myths associated with him have http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hermaeus_Mora, the "Demon of Knowledge", as the antagonist.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ysgramor#cite_note-VoF-9} Apparently, some historians have misrepresented Ysgramor as being the leader of the first large group of human settlers from Atmora, when in fact he was following a long tradition of migration.

The book also hints that the dragon cultists who practiced the dragon cult art of draugr making were nords not nedes like Ysgramor, so the draugr are nords, and Ysgramor was probably a follower of another form of dragon worship. Mainly one who worshiped akatosh, not alduin like the nords used to.