Well, when a computer feels pain, detect danger, call for for help, solves new problems, etc., without human programming, then we talk.

In many, many ways. One such way is that IBM created a computer that could simulate a cat's brain http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/ibm-unveils-a-new-brain-simulator. It's predicted that a real-time human-scale computer simulation of the human brain will be completed by 2019.


And what would you call the roughly 8-10 years that humans undergo being instructed on how to detect danger, call for help, solve problems, etc?

No one assumes that we're just going to be able to toss more power and neural networking at the problem and suddenly create human-level A.I. Programming is necessary to a certain degree in order to, for lack of a better term, bootstrap to the point at which the learning process can begin.

Well, humans have definitely created much more efficient sensory organs than biology. Computers see the world in a much higher definition than humans can ever hope. In fact, machines are better equipped to interact with the world because they have much more accurate senses.

By comparison, the human eye is pretty bad, lol.

That's what I'm asking. Are you talking about a computer that becomes self-aware unintentionally? Because that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about supercomputers calculating pi or predicting the weather here. . .

Chances are, engineers are going to make the machine's job to be self-aware and mimic life and learn about its place in the world. That's what I think its "job" will be. So self-preservation, learning, etc. What I mentioned earlier pretty much.

But that's something that humans programmed the computer to have. If the computer had done that by itself, then we would have arrive to what they call computer "awareness", or natural intelligence.

We're not talking about that, we're talking about whether computers are more complex than ants' brains.

First of all, the entirety of an ant's behaviour is DNA-coded, so they're pretty much entirely programmed.

Second of all, we already have AI in video games which arguably behaves in a smarter fashion than an ant, and a single computer can execute a video game with hundreds of these AIs running at the same time - so a single computer can have a hundred "brains" in it which are at least at the level of complexity of an ant's brain. That pretty much proves that the computer itself is more complex than an ant's brain.


Humans haven't developed their own intelligence - evolution did. If the humans had done that by themselves, then we would have arrived to what they call human "awareness", or natural intelligence.

Semantic programming

Cool, I see what you're getting at, but let's not turn this into a religious debate here. I'm just pointing out the premise above.

Intelligent Design (humans making cameras) > Non-intelligent design (human eyes)

it hurts when I pee,u might have a point,or I have an STD,I'll stick with that uv got a point for now.

Evolution isn't the equivalent of humans making a machine, really.