This kinda confirms that the beta was just marketing. Nothing has been fixed.

Thats present day.. He is talking about Half Life 1.. Gearbox and Valve made it.. in 1998.. in 2003 Steam was created..

Bethesda is probably one of the richest gaming companies.. They could afford good AI.. And they have a engine in their back pocket which has good AI I hear.. Please don't ask me what this is.. Since that would make a fool of yourself..

I would love to see the sauces where Bethesda said this.

I'll bet it doesn't exist and is only the ranting of someone who's just really butt-hurt about the issue.

Your right.. Dawnguard will be fixed.. But then broken again.. How Bethesda normally does it.. One step forward.. two steps back..

This has been debunked. Stop posting the lie. If it wasn't a lie they would not keep using the engine.
The truth is they don't care about playability all they care about is sales quotas. Stop defending the undefendable.

It's very unlikely it will be patched.

They had a useless early access lottery, nothing was fixed. They had a 30 day exclusive period for one platform, nothing was fixed.

Ever since Dawnguard was released you've been preaching on these forums about how Bethesda are going to fix Dawnguard. I don't know why you believe such a thing. As long as it's passable enough to sell Bethesda just doesn't care. Their history and the farce that is Dawnguard supports that fact.

1.7 did fix the dialog but that had beset us PC players in v1.6...

You do know that 1.7 mainly fixes DAWNGUARD BUGS, right?

Yeah, it's not like they said that engine is not suited for a game like Skyrim, they must be using the Creation Engine just because they are evil moneygrubbers...
Unplayable game means higher sales!

I LOVE LOGIC!!!

Really? Skyrim has slowly got more playable for me (Xbox 360), it was only the 1.6 patch that went a bit wrong, and even that solved a few things. I doubt they have that many working on patches or even DLC, but still I appreciate their efforts. They obviously do care about playability.

Fallout New Vegas never had patches for DLC, just the base game, due to the engine not really supporting it. As J.E. Sawyer put it, 'The short technical reason is ".esm inter-dependencies" and "load order errors". Sorry.'

Since we're on a new and/or modified engine, I honestly hope it's possible to patch an .esm file, but I'm not holding my breath- the patch seems to use the update.esm file instead of actually touching anything in the Skyrim.esm, so while it's possible to release a new DLCUpdate.esm file that fixes Dawnguard bugs, I can see it being more trouble than it's worth.

The other option is to release a brand-new fixed Dawnguard.esm and just ask people to redownload it.


And if by 'DAWNGUARD BUGS', you mean 'Kinect bugs', then yeah, sure.

Well I must have missed the debunk, so if you could point me in the direction of it I would be grateful.

But from where I'm currently sitting, they've been using the same engine since Morrowind, tweaking it each game, and we have been seeing a steady increase in bugs. Having missed this debunk, I can only go by that reasoning which seems sound to me.

But please do set me straight if you can. I know I'm not the most knowledgeable person on here

After reading what you commented too.. I have a little bit of a stand on that situation.. I don't believe Valve has the intention of keeping Half Life 3 from being showed/released/sold due to specs.. When you look at Valve's games they have low specs when they are able to get higher specs.. I also must comment saying Half Life 1 did not have the best AI.. but Skyrim's AI is probably the worst in exsistance due to the horrible engine...

They are also using the Creation Engine because they are stupid.. I don't mind the graphics.. But the coding for it is horrible.. There is a problem that keeps popping up from game to game.. Engine is bad - Check.. Don't be ignorant to the fact they are using a horrible engine.. and on the scale.. Being a scammer and having a horrible engine are somewhat similar yet different.. Having a bad engine and lying about the fact that a game is utterly broken and then decide to sell it is not taken kindly to me.. The way you see things are backwards..

- Using vampiric grip and swimming no longer prevents swimming animation from playing afterwards


Yes, because the two AI are nearly identical.
Why, I'm sure Half Life's AI is good for sneak detections, capable of representing everyday life, capable of making choices to which weapon to use, they must be great at melee combat as well...

You know what, Red Alert 3 had really good AI, why don't they use that

So they should just get an engine from outside sources?

Sure, the market is chuck full of games that are just like Skyrim...

That's not Dawnguard bugs. That's Dawnguard bug.

So I don't really see how the patch 'mainly fixes Dawnguard bugs', when it fixes a grand total of one.

Also thats backwards about the AI.. Thats saying Bethesda uses old tech if they do and even if they are nearly identical.. You clearly pointed out a flaw with AI.. Well another thing about AI is they can't jump.. When you shoot a enemy while another enemy is next to him.. He doesn't even realize.. When you hit a guy while trying to hit a dragon, he will try to kill you.. These are all flaws about the AI mate..

They don't use a Game's AI...!!! They use the engines.. And they don't have rights to that engine

ID Tech V... Only Id and Bethesda can use it.. To be honest.. Nobody cares about the engine's creator.. They care about the quality of it.. and 95% of all players don't even know the engine's name or creator when they play a game.. Maybe a little more with Bethesda since they talked about the Creation Engine a lot when making skyrim...

Hate to admit it but you are correct sir, they have not addressed all the bugs in Skyrim and now that Dawnguard is out that means they will probably continue to address the problems in Skyrim....which would fix some problems with Dawnguard too....but a specific Dawnguard cleaning patch will probably come out of the comunity....I am still amazed that there are still new fixes and patches for not only Oblivion...but Morrowind scary to think that those have been mostl done by a handful of modders on their spare time, while good old Beth with all their money and resources cannot....maybe will not

What I meant was that a game from 1998 offered people a better AI, limiting it to its contest, than what Skyrim does in 2011, 13 years where Bethesda could have improved. Though I'd like to be enlighted by an oracle around here about the improving part as maybe Skyrim's AI actually does surpass HLs.

Not jumping is AI problem, shooting people makes sound which they always recognise and... AI IS BASED ON THE ENGINE???!!!

What the hell are you talking about?!

AI doesn't work that way! Half Life and Skyrim are two completely different games, Half Life AI is made for completely different things than Skyrim's AI was, you just cannot compare the two!
And, yes, back on some other post I referenced that engine as well, Bethesda said they are not using that engine because it is not suited for a game like Skyrim.



Okay, it's quite obvious nobody here knows how [censored] works...

I don't understand why they didn't just use a new engine. There's clearly a lot of memory management issues with the Creation Engine, and the issues with PS3 made that abundantly clear.

This here I am not sure why people forget this right here, obviously Bethesda has no clue how to handle ash piles at all they should just do away with them and not use the ash piles.
I can confirm ash piles persist after 1.4 and I have made several new characters up to patch 1.6.

While I admit ash piles are annoying, why are they a problem? They seem to take up no more resources than any of the thousands of other things moved around in the game that stay that way till you move them. It is not like the ash piles grow, or the ash pile effects compound over time (like the nirnroot glow seemed to). The ash piles I made last year still look the same now, they have not gone on a murderous spree and wiped out innocent NPC's, it is not slowing my game down, it is just a bit of mess making the place look untidy. Not as bad as some of the bodies I still have lying around from last year. Although usually I will go dump them in a bush to get them out of sight. both old characters or a new ones, get their share of ash piles and bodies. Maybe we could ask Bethesda to give us an ash pile removal spell, just go zap them ourselves. Or even make the things movable like bodies, I am sure some of us could have some fun with that.

As to fixing Dawnguard glitches, changing the swimming animation used at certain times could have been altered through the main game could it not? And of course they have to fix the kinect problems, since it has to work with the gadget, I have doubts the voice recognition stuff is part of Dawnguard either, maybe they just added the new shouts to the main game? They are still collating and checking their collection of Dawnguard bugs, so maybe after everyone gets a chance to download Dawnguard they might release a patch. Why would they be so interested in us reporting the problems if they could do nothing about them? Personally I doubt they would, most problems the players can get around themselves, just like we have to with the main game still. But it would be nice.

It's not too rough with any of the distribution methods to deliver the updated content. The problem is going to lie with the engine and how it handles replaced/updated esm/esps. It runs a risk of invalidating the saves that were created before that patch.


And the load screen, however, both of those issues are more general issues with the engine versus content in the Dawnguard.esm. The only other DG fix is the Kinect improvement, which is probably not ESM driven as well.

I imagine a lot of the confusion comes about from stuff that's in the engine that is only [currently] utilized by Dawnguard.