Blalok, I am happy I could help. No gift needed (but I really appreciate the thought).

... On second thought, if I ever run into you somewhere you can buy me a tranya.

Well, unfortunately after further testing, this may have been to good to be true, lol. After my last celebratory post, I decided to test my mod all the way though just to be sure it was working. Unfortunately, now it looks like Tullius is not moving into position like he is supposed to, which stalls MQ101 with everybody standing around the chopping block waiting for him to show up. (I think he may have been up by the front gate gettin' busy with the Thalmor witch.)

So, I started poking around in the CK again, and the first thing I noticed was that I NOW have multiple cells showing that I have edited the navmesh where there were none before. It appears that the cells bordering the one we deleted the records from get "edited" by doing so. Also, upon reloading my plugin, I got that stupid pathfinding error that's been discussed about the road marker. God's damn navmesh bugs are going to be the bain of my modding career it seems. If we cannot make simple edits to navmesh without pulling out our hair like this modding is going to svck. So, I guess I'm stuck again, unless anyone has some more stuff I can try.

Carefully check through the cells you're talking about. Look at the form IDs in the object window. See if you have any that being with 01 (or 02 if you have Update.esm as a master too) instead of 00. If you do, select those and delete them from within the CK.

That road marker thing, just ignore it. Nobody knows why that happens and it never seems to have any affect on anything. It's probably a broken record in Skyrim.esm.

Guess I went to bed too early after all

I was able to reproduce the problem you were seeing, so I started a process of elemination. Since the problems I was seeing were all navmesh issues (NPC's just standing there, not moving), I just continued to revert back to the original navmesh. After repeating the intro three times, I got tired of it and just removed the edited navmeshes for the following 6 cells and all is fine:

HelgenExterior (4,-19)
HelgenExterior02 (4,-20)
HelgenExterior03 (4,-21)
HelgenExterior05 (3,-19)
HelgenExterior06 (3,-20)
HelgenExterior07 (3,-21)

After cleaning up these 6 cells, I can complete the intro quest. (The only problem was one building entry way was blocked so I had to disable clipping (TCL) to get through the doorway. So if you haven't already fixed that, you'll need to.

Ughhh…

Yeah, I kinda did the same thing last night too, but eventually got frustrated as it seemed the more I deleted, the more started showing back up in the details window, lol. And I’m also wondering if doing it that way is just setting myself up for more trouble later on, because I have plans for every building in Helgen to be occupied, as well as adding a few more buildings heading down the hill. So at a minimum, I would have to finalize all of these cells for teleport purposes.

I’m just uber-paranoid that I’m going to break something for potential users. And I’m wondering at this point if I’m not better off just reverting back to my clean version, and rebuilding it from there. Even with the huge amount of work that this would entail, I believe I can rebuild it in a week or two, and I’ll ultimately end up with a much cleaner mod. I’ve already done it once, so I have a blueprint to follow, lol.

Man, I hate all these navmesh issues. I wonder if I will even be able to set up doors to some of these places because the vanilla navmesh is so damn chopped up, and it’s apparent that it don’t like to be edited. (What have I gotten myself into…)

Thanks again!

From the navmesh point of view, I think following the steps outlined in my previous post IS reverting back. That's why I just deleted all your navmeshes to clean it all out.

If I were going to start over again, I'd do it the way I suggested earlier by editing what you want and saving to a new plugin. I've seen many posts recommending that method (and the only safe method I know) to get rid of dirty edits so that's the "worst case" scenario, imo. But in your case, I really think deleting all the navmesh records as I outlined above IS the best approach, because that is resetting your navmeshes to vanilla.

After that, you can start over and redo your navmeshing, being REALLY careful

And honestly, don't be too hard on yourself... I've edited a lot of road navmeshes but none were as convoluted as Helgen.

OK, that makes me feel a little better, lol. I’ll give it another go when I get home this evening and report back. I just didn’t understand how deleting entries kept causing the navmesh in other cells to be flagged as edited, and assumed that this would continue into perpetuity to the neat cell, then the next, and then the next as it looked like it was doing…

Did you check any of the bordering wilderness cells to see if that was happening on your end? And yeah, those Helgen cells were quite daunting the first time I loaded them up. But, it's really pretty easy to pick most of it apart. That MQ101 is mind boggling though, lol.

No, I didn't check because I really don't think it matters. Since once you have all this "working" again, I figure you will go back and make your navmesh edits, they are going to get flagged as "dirty" anyway. Being flagged as "dirty" or edited, isn't a problem in itself and nothing you can really do about it when you make an edit.

What I did test was that the intro worked. After I read your post, I went back to the original ESP and started over. Each cell cleanup got me farther through the intro, until I got tired of it and just reverted the remaining cells. After doing that, no CK crashes and I could get all the way through the first quest and in to the keep.

I don't remember now if the Pathfinding warning came up, but regardless, it's going to when you make any edits in the cell. And from what the Beth dev said, it's "just a warning". Unless you are not going to make any navmesh edits in those cells, you wont be able to avoid it anyway.