I'd give people living 100+ years ago a pass on quite a few things. Modern people living in 1st-world environments have a lot fewer excuses to be silly.

That's what people will be saying 100 yrs from now.

why, because of textbooks?....LOL. I will bet you could have found a whole lot more common sense in people 100+ years ago than today, especially in 1st world environments. Now intelligence, on the other hand, may be a different story, in some cases anyway.

OOPS wrong quote, meant to quote 'softnerd'

Only if they're talking about aliens we haven't met yet.

I am actually learning a lot about that whole deal in a new course dubbed simply street science. Which focuses on teaching people to use critical thinking skills. Isaac Newton may have been a genius in some specific areas but the man's critical thinking skills needed some work.

Apparently critical thinking is actually really hard for people to do. They often rely on heuristics to reach conclusions, mostly so they don't expend the additional calories for critical thinking as some sort of conservation mechanism. Critical thinking actually takes more energy to do, so our natural response is not to do it and we rely on what basically amounts to self taught mind tricks to problem solve most of the time. This could explain why smart people often make stupid decisions.

Interesting course so far.

It's hard to say, because a Newton born today would have a lot more knowledge available to him. Chemistry, metallurgy, physics, etc. have come a long way since his lifetime. I doubt that something like alchemy would be a consideration for a modern Newton. I could be wrong...maybe he was just nuts.

Alchemy is more like science fiction than fantasy.

After all, you just need to take some protons from here and put them there.

Had moments where I've skipped the first few classes of college to educate my parents instead of educating myself. Not that any sort of argument can sway a mind set on hating some one particular group, with years of hatred and bigotry behind it. It's almost like my mother feels a need to confess to me about her stupid hatred of other religious or ethnic groups, at moments when she knows I'm just about to leave the house so that she can get it off her heart and not listen to me argue since I have to go anyway. Sometimes I just won't go though and stick around, dumb as it sounds considering I just said I probably can't sway her mind, I still often feel that classes can wait while I have my argument.

Unfortunately, the only person that can really change is the person themselves who is doing the hatred. They have to realize how stupid their warped view is and seek to change it, and no amount of argument can change that. You can hope that it will happen, but don't be disappointed if it doesn't.

I hope I don't sound like I'm talking smack about your mother. This is not directed squarely at her, it's directed at the whole 'arguing with bigots' in general.

I'll admit that when I was a teenager, I was led to have some major prejudices against parts of my own ethnicity. I'm White and Hispanic, though mostly Hispanic. I grew up in an area of California that was very, very multicultural. This tiny town was pretty equally divided by Whites, Pacific Islanders, Asians, Middle Easterners, Blacks, and Hispanics (the usual ethnic groups you see in the US). And it was very common to see people marry, date, befriend, and refer to people of other races as family. I grew up really used to that. I fell in love with many aspects of the different races I came in contact with; I had best friends who had family from Samoa, Tonga, Tahiti, Bhutan, Japan, Mexico, Guatemala, India, Pakistan, the UK, Kenya, South Africa, New Zealand, etc.

Even though my own family is predominantly Hispanic (with people in my close and extended family ranging in appearance from taller with fair skin, to tall and dark skinned [looking Black if you had no clue they were Hispanic], to shorter with tanner complexions [what most people imagine when they think of Hispanics]), we were also pretty Americanized. My parents both immigrated to the US at varying points, and while we maintained some of the culture, we mainly thought of ourselves as an average American family. We didn't retain as much of our "home culture" as many other immigrant families.

When I was about 14 years old, I moved to Miami, and it was the first time I was put in direct contact with full-on Hispanic culture. It was a huge shock to me. Because we had grown up speaking English at home, most of us only understood Spanish (and could speak it if necessary), which would get people pissed hearing my mom speak to us in English. We would be at the store asking my mom for something, and people would actually approach her and harangue her about it, claiming she wasn't teaching us the "pride of our people" and accusing her of thinking she's too good for Hispanic culture. Even cashiers would say that to her when they'd hear us all speaking in English to each other. They'd tell my mom that they had lived in the US for X amount of years and didn't learn "stupid English". I'd see that along with the general lack of concern for others among the denizens there, and how I was treated at school for "sticking out" and when mixed with my depression from having moved across the country right at the start of high school and why we moved (messy divorce), and I began to be highly ashamed of Hispanic culture.

I would tell people I was white (I don't have a Hispanic name, so it was believable), and I would say things like that Hispanics were lazy layabouts who would never amount to anything because they were tied to a pride over nothing and a sense of entitlement, etc. I'd actually get physically angry if someone referred to me as Hispanic or Latina, or said that I had any facial features of a Hispanic. I'd outright refuse to speak Spanish (I had gotten less nervous about speaking it by then) and pretend that I didn't understand it, even if I was at work and a customer really needed something. I got pretty bad and was like that for 2-3 years.

I realized after a while that this was not helping my depression. It was just making it worse. And I came more and more in contact with people who began with similar feelings as I did and had it turn into something truly, truly ugly and hurtful to others, and I began trying to work through my feelings. I realized that I was just lashing out at Miami and trying to find any patterns for the behaviors I saw, and I was hating that people were trying to identify me with something that I saw was that pattern, because I didn't want to be associated with the bad characteristics I misascribed to the culture.

Either way, it took a while of working through it, but now I can say that I've completely gotten over it, and I have seen bigotry and racism for what they are--ugly voids of disgusting attitudes.

After that, I think I did dabble in ageism when beginning to work in computers, and just not being able to understand why older people couldn't learn what was so "simple" for me. I quickly realized after working with a lot of these older people and seeing that they weren't stupid but that some things just aren't quick to pick up if this new type of intuition that comes with having used computers a lot or dedicated a lot of time to them just wasn't there to be learned at a more widespread level when they were growing up. I will say that I can't stand willing ignorance or learned helplessness, though. Nope.

Don't do prejudice, kids. Take it from the fat dog owner.

If we had a Newton today, he probably would not believe in Alchemy and that much is more than likely to be true. However that doesn't mean he wouldn't believe in something almost equally batty(this is imo) like Astrology, Ancient Aliens etc etc... Alchemy wasn't exactly considered a science in Newton's time either. Most people with any knowledge thought it was hogwash back then.

Anyways, the argument or the facts I guess, (I did hear all of this from 4 professors that share the class and that all have their PHDs in the study of this whole field so I tend to believe them a bit) goes that believing in Astrology and the like has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. Studies have proven an idiot is just as likely to believe Astrolgy is real as an Intelligent man is. What only really makes any difference in studies related to believing such things is critical thinking skills. People with critical thinking skills are much less likely to believe in paranormal phenomena because they actually apply critical thinking to it. Critical thinking is actually not that common amongst the world's most intelligent people either oddly enough. At least statistically. It is just as uncommon amongst the less intelligent communities. You will find idiots who won't believe in Astrology and Geniuses who will. There are also the people with critical thinking skills who have not developed them correctly ans misapply them and reach highly faulty conclusions. It is only the third day of class so far but the course is proving to be quite interesting so far.

No worries, I wouldn't get ticked off at someone for doing what I did myself. She's a nice person, no lies there, but just so full of fear which leads to such bigotry and hatred. She always has these crazy ideas that just because a different religious group decides to build a praying house of their own, that they are somehow trying to destroy her own religion and that they're trying to "take over". This doesn't only go for religion but land too, someone from a different country buys a patch of land here and all of a sudden she hates people from that country because "they're trying to buy up and take over the country."

She's also very paranoid about thieves and other crooks, always locks the house when she is alone at home, even if it's the middle of the day. Perhaps if she wasn't so cowardly she wouldn't be so bigoted. But as it is, in her eyes nearly anything that brings change or is different is evil and must be stopped.

Props to an honest post.

hmm answering a question with a question would normally mean that you dont have an answer.

Now since im not the one to answer a question with a question ill answer your question assuming you answer mine.

Now as i stated in my last reply and in previous replies i can be bigoted but in general i treat everyone neutrally so ive got no love for them but ive also got no hate for them an that changes based on their actions if they treat me kind ill treat them kind if they treat me like trash then ill return the favour by telling them to f off and never talking to them again.

I do that for everyone including family not because i live in grey or because im not kind hearted or gentle but because im tired of having my kindness an gentle loving nature been abused by people who are only looking out for themselves.

So again i ask you.

Why treat everyone with kindness.

I only discriminate against white people, black people, Asians, Russians, Eskimo's, native Americans, Latin Americans, Middle Eastern people, Mongols, Europeans, Americans and people that use their left hands.

As far as I'm concerned, they all need to be wiped off the face of this earth.

Bigotry stems from a lack of understanding and a lack of empathy.

If you can't/don't understand or empathise with people, you "other" them, which naturally leads to an Us vs Them mentality.

This is a lot easier to do in impersonal situations, because interaction and experience of others naturally dissolves Us vs Them mentalities. That's why, for example, you'll still see bigotry in public, all-white, all-Christian, middle class schools- because, despite the homogeneity of the community, the students are such a large group that it becomes difficult for them to empathise with each other, and they have to break off in order to form smaller groups (nerds, jocks, goths, etc.) with better social cohesion.

as a lefty, I am offended. Offended I tell you

The truth is that everyone is biggoted in some way. I may not be racist(I probably am somewhere tbh, ironically probably against what can beconsidered my own people) but i have noticed some mildly sixist tendencies that I think i picked up from my Dad. Like my inability to want to play a game, watch a movie, read a book with a female protagonist. I am working on those. I also have some classist issues with rich people with no context in life except their own. Sometimes it is difficult to hear about someone's problems when they are so trivial compared to your own. However within their context, losing their pet is equally difficult for them as it is for you if you lost a friend. Pointing out their problems as trivial helps no one.

The lesson here is being aware of your own biggotry and working on it.

Ok before i go to bed i just want to thank everyone so far for staying on topic and in the boundaries i set so.

Thank You.

Now good night folks.

Sure, you can see plenty of this by simply talking to people. Plenty of learned people have difficulty debating a concept because they don't have the critical thinking skills to formulate a proper argument. I guess my definition of intelligence differs, as it includes...possibly even hinges on...the ability to think critically. I know more than a few people with master's degrees in difficult subjects from major universities that can't think their way out of a paper bag when you remove them from their comfort zone. In most cases it smells more like laziness and/or stubbornness to me than an inability to do it, though.

That said, I still don't see a curiosity about alchemy as being symptomatic of a lack of critical thinking skills for someone living in the 1600's. The physical sciences held a lot more mysteries at the time. Alchemy wouldn't have been much more of a flight of fancy at the time than...say...attempting to find evidence of ESP in humans is now. Sure, other scientists might laugh at you behind your back, but it's difficult to prove that the pursuit is completely without merit.

And a bit of truth. Explaining this will get me banned for sure, but that's how I see it.

There's a difference between bigotry and anthropology.