I think a lot of the problems with the PS3 are memory related --- static and dynamic. As others have pointed out, the PS3 and XBOX 360 are old systems in terms of current computer technology. Maybe it's the games I play but, I've never seen save files so large. They are tracking a lot of stuff. My save file is over 10MB at this point. My game will only run two hours before I must quit and reload a save to have proper performance. Since, it's the 13th. I doubt the new patch will be released for the consoles until after New Year's Eve. I just hope it doesn't make things worse.

Before anybody rags one me, I've tried. I mean I've really tried to get along with things as they sit. But, I can't complete the game this way.

I agree, also the size of the game install to the harddrive is tiny, dead rising 2 has a larger install size than skyrim. Considering how simple dead rising is, its ridiculous. I'm on xbox btw.

I read somewhere else that someone turned off all the auto saves and then loaded from a good save and was able to keep playing. Personally I don't have a problem, I just started playing and my save file is only 3MB. Plus I've always kept several manual save points on my own. I've never trusted auto save since Neverwinter Nights (autosave corrupted save files ). Just something you could try in the meantime to keep playing.

PS3 gamer here. I can't answer this in super-technical terms, but it has something to do with the game not resetting itself properly. There's a few things you can do to counteract file size

> don't leave stuff laying around everywhere. If you're in the habit of playing the big, burly Nord (whatever) who crashes around everywhere and knocks plates and silverware around, this is apparently supposed to be not good for file size, as the game has to now remember where everything has been moved around to.

> sometimes (if I feel like it) I've been storing random items left lying around into dead bodies. Since dead bodies do respawn, this means all the objects stored in those bodies will also respawn. This means the game will need to "remember" less overall.

> if you go thru a door or a gate, close it if you can.

>This one is most difficult for me: Don't explore excessively until the new patch is out. Don't take on quest after quest, etc. And once it's out, let's see if it helps those players who are having the most problems.

> save often.

>turn OFF all the autosave options (wait, sleep, and travel)

> I've never had any problems with my game, as I've been proactive since I first heard about the issues starting to happen 3 weeks ago and my largest gamesave to date was 6.8 mb. But if you do have stuttering or lag or whatever, saving, quitting, and restarting is supposed to help. For a couple hours.

You sound new to this. You won't start experiencing problems until after your file gets over 6MB -- and it will. It also depends on how long you spend playing in one sitting. Say, you are off on Saturday and decide to play and nothing else requires your attention. That is probably when you will experience problems.



@Renee
Yeah, that is a lot of "state" information to track. However, I don't always loot and there could be a whole bunch of weapons and shields just lying around. Which brings me to my wish of "clean-up". The game should clean up after itself every so often.

My file size on 360 for my one file is 15MB's, only lag I notice is when I save. It takes a couple seconds longer to do so then normal. I could turn off autosaves and that probably would be a good idea but I haven't had any problems so far with loading autosaves. I usually delete them if I switch to a different character.

A 14 MB save file is not uncommon with other games. All of my Assassin's creed saves are around 14mb right out of the gate. BF3 is 8 mb as well. Those companies just use different ways to use PS3 proccesing on different game engines.
I just checked and Red dead Redemption with all DLC is 12mb. LA NOIRE is 10mb. So there is nothing to do with file size at all. It's how Skyrim refreshes(or in this case doesn't refresh, it memorises) your sandbox as you play in it.

I didn't get any problems until 12 MB, now I can't play at all (PS3)

Yes it should. I'm not too worried to be honest; it'll get fixed.

What I'm more worried about is the A-bomb. I lost 2 of my Oblivion games to the A-bomb at about 350-360 hours. What happens is: spell effects get "stuck", and fires no longer move. This I could live with (though it did break immersion). What really svcks is when doors no longer open. :banghead: Man, that bummed me out. My elf mage was literally in the final Oblivion tower (past the siege engine) when there was a door she couldn't open.

So I'm hoping the A-bomb does not rear its ugly head somehow in Skyrim. I hope this is an issue I never have to deal with again.

I've never really understood what difference the door thing would make. Items are still in a room whether the door is open or not......and the game still has to remember whether the door is open or closed anyway so I can't see how it would make any difference to your save size/performance?

I read one of the threads in this portion of the forum that solidified my understanding of what is happening. However, I am glad that I'm not the only one is this annoying boat.

I guess instead of selling my "ton" of potions. I should use them all. That would remove some useless data.
The same thing applies to "stored items." Only keep what you need.


@Horsey_71

It's about programming really and Math. Computers are really a large collection of transistors. Transistors have only two states -- on and off. The state a transistor is in can be set initially by sending current through it to "high" (which is the same as true, 1, and On). So, think of a board of lights in front of you and each one represents a door. For every light that is off, a door is closed. For every light that is on, the door is open. But, how do we remember what changes? Well, we have to use more transistors to store the original state of those transistors. This is all at the extreme individual component level.

Basically, all of the doors have an initial state. That is stored in some sort of database. When a door is opened, it's state gets changed and recorded. All of these tiny minor events require memory (static or dynamic) to keep track. Otherwise, the moment you leave an area it would simply reset. The vase you knocked over would appear in it's original location and not be on the floor somewhere.

It svcks.. i have new save.. 5min in the game and the save file 3.1 loool....

my save file is 15mb i can say that whilerun, riften & solitude r the laggiest cities

riften wooded area is unbearable, liberating the rift was one of the worst lags ive seen so far

dungeons for the most part run fine for me

Yep, I understand the initial state theory, but as soon as you enter a room you change that state don't you? Whether you leave the door open or closed when you leave shouldn't have any effect as it's still remembering an "on, off" scenario as you say which gets recorded in your save. So, the theory only works if you never open a door surely? Or am I just incredibly dense

on PS3 and save is at 14MB and is playable still but i think thats because i reformatted and reset my PS3 to factory settings just yesterday due to skyrims crashes and corrupt save data issues (if a game that crashes while accessing the HDD can corrupt save files it could also potentially corrupt needed OS files without you knowing as you cant see OS files which may result in software failure so to be safe rather then sorry i restored my PS3 to factory settings) and its playability is much improved been playing a good 8 hours now no crashes and only just hit minor lag

I've only done those two above and I'm still on the playable phase yet I still get some spiked lags here and there. I had 2 lock-ups this morning and had to do a hard shut down on my PS3.
Also, you may want to keep only items you want to actually keep. Don't hoard items in your house and yourself on your inventory. Keep the ones that matters the most. I have four save files and they rotate as I save on the most oldest save which is the last fourth save.

I just hit 9MB and the gameplay is acceptable for me. Btw, don't play too long. Take that advice you get from certain games where you take a break for 15 mins (I recommend longer), so that you can rest your PS3 for awhile. I usually end up taking a one or two hour break or even longer because I end up watching a TV show on Netflix. Not Netlix on the PS3 but on my own computer, duh.

Nope, not dense at all. Computing power today makes what we are talking about a very minor thing. However, the original Turing machine would have taken an extremely long time to figure out if Door 15 of cell 125 was open. The door is just one piece of tracked information on the whole that adds to the memory related problem and "leak".

I obviously don't know all of the specifics --- I'm strictly guessing.
PC = Player Character.

PC opens door to interior room ( door state recorded).
PC faces a Drougr ( initial state peaceful ) Drougr charges PC (state change aggressive). PC slays Drougr (state change Drougr dead).
Drougr state changes to lootable object and contains an array of items
PC examines Drougr (state change on Drougr from unexamined to examined).

Are you beginning to see the picture? It depends on actual properties that Bethesda tracks on rooms, objects, instances of creatures, and so forth. The early stages of the game work great. This is because we haven't done anything yet and few artifacts (actions, objects, etc) of previous encounters exist. The more we progress the more artifacts we create. Generally, (my opinion) artifacts get destroyed after a certain amount of "in-game" time passes making this a non-issue. With Skyrim, it's a huge problem. You killed a drougr and the body remains fo a while. However, when the body is finally "destroyed" the weapon and shield are left behind. This all adds up.

The other poster is just stating --- he tries to not disrupt or interact with anything that is not required. The "door state", in reality, has little to do with anything. It's very minor. Consider the number of random object states that are changed by a shout.

Got a question!

I've seen people mention corrupted files, so my question is what do they look like? I had a look through my game and save data but it all looks fine. Do corrupted files just blatantly say: "CORRUPTED"?

No. The system (depending on whether or not your save files are grouped) throws these corrupted files into an Unknown folder. The save file itself is called Unknown Save file. The size will be relative to the size of your current file. These files are created during game crashes that occur while the autosave happens. This could be after fast travel or any other "lock-up".

Very interesting, I'll scroll through the save folder later and see if I spot anything weird. Thanks for the info.

This is the email I received from Playstation. They responded to me within 3 hours. I have not had a chance to try it out yet.


Thank you for contacting Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC (SCEA). I am very sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you. I am more than happy to assist you today. We may be able to resolve this issue by deleting the game data utility for Skyrim.

To do this:
?Go to the Game icon on the XrossMediaBar? (XMB?)
?Select Game Data Utility
?Find the game title
?Press triangle, then delete.

After deleting the game data, go into Safe Mode and select option 3 (Restore File System). The information below will assist you in accessing Safe Mode.

Using Safe Mode
Article Link: http://playstation.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1488

After the restore has completed, load the disc, install the game data on the system and start the game.

Thank you so much for your time and for letting me provide this information today. You will be receiving a brief survey in your e-mail about the service I was able to provide you today. When you do receive a survey, I would really appreciate any feedback or comments you can give about my personal response to you.

Happy Holidays,

I had lag and bit of freeze till 13MB...... now its just crud, Mr Hair Cut

but
This doesn't solve anything I've tried all combinations of re-install game with combinations of rebuilding database and restore file system, they help anywhere from 1 hours to not at all. Once my save reached 14 MB(yes started to be from game load at 13MB)its now just about all game time

That svcks. I have 180 hours in, I'm kinda afraid to try any of that mentioned. I'd hate to mess up and delete my save file. Once I get the chance, I'll back it up on a flash drive and see what kinda damage I can do. In the mean time, I'm going to be playing something else I guess. I just wish I would have played the main quest now. It figures, once I'm done exploring for a while and want to actually follow the story of the game, it craps out on me.

btw, glad you like my hair cut

The reasons for the ever-growing save files have been identified: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1315127-reason-for-expanding-save-files-discovered/