Hi, I'm not on these boards often so I apologize if this is something that comes up very often. But I'm wondering about whether Bethesda are aware of followers not levelling, and more importantly whether it's a bug or a feature, and if it will be fixed in the next patch.

I really hope this isn't a feature, since level locked gear was one of the biggest design flaws of Oblivion, where players would grind to level 30 before starting to collect quest rewards. I don't want to have to grind to 50-70 before I pick up Lydia, or even avoid travelling in certain areas so I dont level lock other followers.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1285338-folower-stats-do-not-update-with-level-probably-a-bug/

Thanks, it's good to see people are talking about it, but I'd really like to know if there's any official acknowledgement about it.

You can use disable and enable to force the stat update on the NPCs which do not appear to do it on cell transition (some seem to update correctly). Disable and enable are not quite as dangerous to use as they could be in previous titles because scripts which include the reference are not broken when doing this.

I think the intent was that your followers would level with you, since they do technically increase in level to match the player, but their stats are not recalculated properly when they do so. More specifically it is their base stat (which does not change) that determines their behavior rather than their reference stat (which does increase correctly when they/the player level up). As such this is probably a bug, though whether it gets fixed is anyone's guess.

Someone commented in my thread linked above that you could send your follower home and then not go there until the cell reset (after 30 days, not 3). That might work but I'm not going to bother to test it.

I'll test that. I'm not actually a PC user, I'm on 360 so this will be my only workaround if it works. I post on these boards, because well...360 users don't really care about this kind of thing.

Yeah the values associated with the specific npc reference do not properly update along with the base id. The difference between the base and reference is the difference between say a specific Whiterun guard and the one you just hit with an axe - obviously there is a reason not to constantly resync the reference to the base values or else monsters and NPCs would never retain information like "damage you did to them." For followers they should update more often than 30 days and for the unbroken lady from the bar in whiterun they do. leaving them in an interior cell and waiting for the 30-game days for that cell to be refreshed forces the game to reload the actor data from the base values. Disable/enable is merely a faster way to do this but the slow way should also work on the console versions and not just the PC.

Well alright 20 days of waiting left. It's like the release date all over again.

I hope your joking. 30 game days, not irl days.

Well to be clear, I'm not sure if the cell reset reloads actor data for certain. It should, at least with ones not currently "following" or "waiting" for who have been dismissed and sent home, but reference object data is handled differently in a lot of ways in this game than in the previous Bethesda titles. For the most part this is a good thing since follower inventory, "relationshiprank", and actor values that dictate the ai governed behavior (mood, confidence, agression, assistiveness, etc.) don't spontaneously change for no apparent reason. In this case that might turn out to be a frustrating impediment to getting around this glitch.

I also just realized that for some NPCs the "home" they go to is your personally home. There is a strong likelyhood that these cells are exempt from cell refresh (or else your stuff could disappear) so it probably won't work for House Carls like Lydia in those cases. This exemption would likely be meant to keep your stuff from vanishing but would also explain why some people have reported the plants in the archmage's garden don't refresh. If this is the case and cell reset does not happen in a player house/base then this solution will not work for NPCs who return there after they leave your service. The possible way to get around this would be to dismiss them far away from your home while in an exterior cell right outside an outdoor inn or smilar place, enter the inn or other safe interior cell and wait there for 30 game-days, and only then return to your home. If you do this then there is a chance they will not be referenced in your home or other exempted cell and so not be exempt from cell refreshing.

Alright so I waited a little over 30 days to be sure and just went and did some primitive testing on Lydia. Basically whacking her over the head with an axe, and it took exactly the same amount of health as before. So I'm unsure if this is working, or whether the health difference would be too small to notice. I think I got her around level 5? and am now around 22 or so.


Would you know if player owned cells (homes) reset the same as other rooms do? My Lydia is going to Breezehome instead of the keep, and I'm now wondering if home cells reset in the same way as other cells or not. The reason I ask is because homes don't respawn food items like other cells do.

Yeah sorry I realized this right after you said you'd go test it. Your home is most likely exempt from such cell reset - which would normally be a very good thing because it makes it so your stuff does not vanish. For followers like Lydia you might want to try what I added to the above post - but unfortunately for those NPCs whose home is your home it might just have to be patched for those who can't use the command console.

Okay hmm I see, so this problem mostly affects housecarls then. Thanks for the help so far, I'll just have to hope for a patch.

I would say it affects all NPCs since it doesn't seem you should have to do this or use the use the dev console for followers who've been fighting along side you while you were leveling up. It's just that for those unable to use the developer console it is particularly difficult with House Carls. Mjoll and Uthgerd the Unbroken both seem to level properly (at least they do for me). They also have a little more personality. In the meantime you might just want to use Uthgerd the Human Tank/Mobile Anti-Dragon Arrow Turret.