It's a child that has had Steve Buscemi eyes and mouth Photoshoped onto his face.

I want a good story, one that invokes a lot of personal thinking and plenty of choices in order to achieve a completed status. 3 options to finish a quest isn't really enough, each stage should have 3 options, "good" neutral and "bad" and then those outcomes have the same 3 options until the reach and end point. Well the first one and any that involve talking to an NPC should have 4 - death. Because consequenses should be a heavy feature of this game and everyone can be killed at anytime.
All I really want is a deep story and no essiential characters.

Its sold more for the holidays and has still more copies sold total.

Here is my proofs:

Skyrim - http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49112/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/

Just Dance 3 - http://www.vgchartz.com/game/48264/just-dance-3/

You're trolling too hard, calm yourself and think, then post.

Yes, yes. Agreed. Well, except for the bit about loving FO3.


Still agreed. Was horribly disappointed myself.



Yes. Bethesda are becoming the Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber of modern gaming.


Good! The first step is in understanding.


Depends on who is developing it. Bethesda alone? It will be crap. Bethesda w/ Obsidian? There stands a chance, though I'm sure I'll be irritated by much of it. Obsidian alone? It will be a great game.


Since their reputation has them on a downward spiral of inanity I believe they will drown in the water they're using to dilute the series, yes.

There's always a chance that Bethie has taken the criticism to heart, but I doubt they'd take enough to actually be able to do anything really different from what they've done since 2006. Now'd be a good time to prove the naysayers wrong, though.

And then there's always a chance that TUNNEL SNAKES RULE!!!1

A snake in a tunnel... Hmm...

Fair enough.

But Just Dance 3 also sold more total than New Vegas has in the entire time its been out. So do we really want to go down that road?

I don't really think we should make comparisons based on game sales anyway. Relatively speaking, Skyrim did very well.

There's also the chance that they make this an ego battle with all their haters who are quite a vocal bunch and continue with the fo3 style because as far as they are concerned if their games sell well and get awards they are fine and both fo3 and skyrim did sell pretty well and are loved by many many gamers.

Sure, and it wouldn't even be an ego battle as that's the sort of games they do -- no versatility what so ever; and none needed as shallow flashy worlds filled with random distractions and everything else looking and feeling like an afterthought seem to sell well enough. GOTY for sure -- again. It's easy to brush off the gripes of some RPG enthusiasts when you have an amount of a nation of random explorers to buy your game and not really care about what's in it as long there's enough random running around.

IMHO, this series deserves better.
Beth can produce a proper Fallout game instead of another TES-clone with mutants, and still get the awards and crap if it's done properly.

It's just the apologists trying to justify Beth's laziness. And also fueling it.

alls I am saying is that maybe you ppl shld have gone easier on beth with the fo3 bashing maybe words of understanding and encouragement would have made beth follow obsidian's suite and make fo4 more mature and richer than fo3 was.

I myself think FO3 wasn't perfect and had plenty of flaws and FONV was a lot ahead of it (sadly in the glitches department too) but even with all of its flaws fo3 was a pretty good game which was fun to play at least twice and I am thankful to it for introducing me to the ip as well. As has been said a thousand times on this forums... it was beth's first FO game and they did a pretty great job of it in some departments. Also, them hiring obsidian to do a fallout was very commendable as well.

I am sure they will learn from FONV and try to better on some of the things in that as well. Unless (and this is what I am scared of) they get really tired of all the incessant whining from some people about how fo3 is absolute dirt (it isn't) and make a game which is watered down like skyrim just to say a big [censored] you to all of their haters. They'd hardly care about it not selling well because any FO game they make now is bound to get a lot of hype and is gonna sell amazingly well.

Yeah but New Vegas is far better than Fallout 3 in terms of being a Fallout game. Fallout 3 and Skyrim sold really well and got awards (at least Fallout 3 got awards so far) but New Vegas also sold really well. Out selling Fallout 3 within the first couple months of release and has won awards of its own. So Bethesda could take a hint and learn from New Vegas and the orginals and try to make a Fallout game with Fallout 4 instead of another TES clone that is Fallout 3. Not bashing the TES series, but Fallout is a very different series and should always be a different series.

I agree with Smert that Bethesda has it in them to make a awesome Fallout game that will satisfy most if not all the critics of Fallout 3. I hope the Fallout 3 apologists don't succeed in fueling Beth's laziness when making Fallout 4.

The problem is also the fans though. And I don't mean apologists.

What is Bethesda's ultimate goal? To make money. This is the ultimate goal of every company, and there is no company that says "let's aim for 300mil profit;" no, the sky is the limit.
And what sells? Sure, maybe New Vegas sells better to Fallout fans, but what are Fallout fans? A vocal minority. Gamers, as a whole, seem to enjoy something else. You can find plenty of let's plays on youtube with players who groan at the thought of having to engage in dialog with House, Caesar or Ulysses. You can find plenty of people who seem to thrill at the chance to shoot a gun, but can't be bothered to check the damn gun's actual stats and realize it's not the best for them. Like it or not, the common denominator of gamers as a whole seems to be this group, and their voice may take over.

You gotta realize that, Bethesda taking control of the series.... This is basically as if the Fallout fans are natives of Hawaii, and Bethesda is the US storming in to claim Hawaii as their own, deciding there should be a bunch of new rules. "You can't," cry the natives, "this is our home!" Bethesda thinks on it and says "you're right, let's put it to a vote," and the people vote on how things should be.
The problem is that ALL people get to vote; the natives of Hawaii and the Americans back home on the mainland, so even though it's the native's home, they've now become a voal minority.

And that's something Fallout fans may need to accept. Look at Skyrim. I don't mean to be overly cynical, but would I call Skyrim "selling-out?" Yes I would. Elder Scrolls used to mean "immersive" to me, but Skyrim feels more like "instant-gratification." There's practically no dialog or detail anywhere. We've actually gone backwards 4 generations when it comes to NPC dialog (yes, I'm saying Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3 and FONV all have superior NPC dialog and realism to Skyrim) What's happened with Skyrim, it can happen again with FO4.

We'll see though, time will tell. If things end up for the worst, at least we'll always have Vegas...

Alls you are saying, eh? Well, alls I am saying is Bethesda made a fine hiking simulator and a terrible Fallout game. It is what it is. Pretending it's not or "gone easier" [sic] on them for the sake of politeness or tender feelings accomplishes nothing.

I second that. In a certain way, Obsidian delivered a very old-school type of game.
A game that requires you to think, to deal with its mechanics, to pay attention to what NPCs are saying.
All of that doesn't cater to that new kind of casual community of not overly intelligent teenagers with very short attention spans Bethesda has been grooming over the years.
Hence this backlash on FNV from these people.
Reducing the amount of loot to give it back some worth? A bad thing.
Enhancing the complexity of the game mechanics? A bad thing.
Delivering a much more dialogue driven game experience at the cost of some random shooting? A *very* bad thing
Reducing the amount of skill points and perks to distribute on the PC to encourage different builds? A sacrilege
Choice and consequence, not being able to slaughter a NCR encampment, and doing a quest for them immediately afterwards? Horrible.

The success proves Bethesda right, in terms of the business perspective that is, and so I think too, that we should look at Skyrim when it gets to the next Fallout rather than taking FNV as a yardstick.
But yeah, I'm still pretty glad for FNV to exist, too, and we have to credit Bethesda for it.

The past tense is unneeded, nothing's happened yet to determine how they meddle with it (despite it being easy to guess and speculate where the series is going). And I have been understanding (and even encouraging at times, in my own way), though that doesn't mean I have to be approving. They did what they did and the get the feedback from it, fair play.

NV selling as well as or slightly better than fo3 does not make much difference. Skyrim I think outsold even fonv and Bethesda is now a big name in the gaming industry recognized for making rpg games with vast worlds to explore. The next fallout game they make is going to get hyped by everyone and is gonna sell very well no matter what they do with it. I agree with longknife on how beth might see things but I hope thats not how they see it.

Them hiring obsidian was a good sign and I too agree that they can indeed make a good solid fallout game . Also, even the ones you call apologists for beth agree that fonv was overall a better game at least most of them do. (I do) They also wish fo3 should have been made in fonv's style (I do) and so in what way are we 'apologists' for beth encouraging it to be lazy. I want them to learn from fonv and also bring some new stuff like what gets suggested on these forums or if they can come up with something good of their own that too.


lol who knows . It was joke anyways what I said above but who knows they might even decide to take special out of the game and make it auto leveling in the next game where skill points go to the skills you are using more automatically and there might be just 6 skills overall and once again we may be fighting alongside the bos...!! That would be epic trolling by beth lol and btw I wasn't referring to you or even most of the "dinosaurs" here when I talked of incessant whiners but there are some here who can be very irritating at times because of their attempts to bring in fo3 in every discussion and then trying to trash it..

Fallout New Vegas out sold Fallout 3 in a couple months. This means in two months it sold more copies than Fallout 3 which was out for two years. In the end when all is said and done New Vegas will out sell Fallout 3 by far.

Yeah I know Bethesda is a company and they put money first. All companies do. Yeah Skyrim sold a crapload as well. Here is the thing The Elder Scrolls and Fallout are two vey different series. New Vegas has proven that TES fans will buy and play a real Fallout game. It has also got other fans outside of Fallout and Bethesda to play it. It has managed to shut up alot of the older fans.

Fallout 3 and New Vegas has created a whole new fan base. Different from the fan base of the The Elder Scrolls fans and older Fallout fans. Not that people can't be fans of bothe series, but my point is. Bethesda can risk pissing off alot of the new fans and alot of the older fans if they decided to make Fallout 4 a Skyrim with guns clone.

Fallout is very different from TES and I want it to remain that way. I hate those that only want Fallout to fill in the gap between TES games. Very annoying.

Fallout 4 will do really well if Bethesda makes Fallout 4 like New Vegas and the Originals. It will also prove that Bethesda can make a real RPG with awesome writing, instead of a hack and slash hiking simulator. Not that another TES hack and slash hicking simulator won't sell well, but there is no reason not to make a real Fallout game and prove the Bethesda can make a great Fallout game.

Maybe we're destined to always have a crap Fallout followed by a good Fallout followed by a crap Fallout followed by a good Fallout?

If this is what's going on, we need to invent affordable time travel. Now.

I really hope not. But sometimes I wonder if Bethesda took a dump in a box and labeled it TES or Fallout, would it still get a 9.5 and sell millions of copies?

Most likely, sadly.

Not to be a nit-pick but that's not really true. New Vegas may have sold more than Fallout 3 did comparatively in both their first few months, but overall Fallout 3 has still sold more copies than New Vegas. New Vegas has 5.81 million total units sold while Fallout 3 has around 7.51 million total units sold.

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=new+vegas

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Fallout+3

This of course is to be entirely expected given how long Fallout 3 has been out.

Once again, not trying to make a statement or anything, just getting the facts straight.