Will RAGE be like most modern/recent games and feature multiple unnecessary copy protection systems? (SecuRom, GFWL)
My argument is this, most developers and publishers absolutely pack the PC versions of their games full of DRM and regardless of what DRM is used on the game it gets zero-day cracked (sometimes even pre-release).

Hoping there is staff from Bethesda and ID Software here I would like to suggest a system of DRM for RAGE.
At release of RAGE have Securom for the first 6 - 12 months of release (release date check, activation, disc check) as the first 6 - 12 months of release would be the period of time were the game would be most pirated. 6 - 12 months after the game has been released release a patch that removes all copy protection from the game. (Removes activation limit, disk check etc...) This would make both parties happy - id Software gets its DRM for the period of time the game would be the most pirated and PC gamers get a DRM free game after 6 months. I have suggested this as PC gamers often complain about DRM and after release complaints usually fly in of using all the activations or something going wrong with the game due to DRM. If DRM were to be removed after 6 - 12 months it would give convenience to PC gamers (not having to worry about using all activations, gamers with 1 cd/dvd drive don't have to switch discs constantly when they want to play different games)

Also, on the subject of GFWL (Games For Windows Live) I would like to suggest that GFWL not be included in the game as it does not add any copy protection and is a system that has many bugs and issues. (oh and there's a stripe across the cover art of the game that says GAME FOR WINDOWS LIVE)

Can you link where there's a GFWL badge? I see a GFW badge, but can't find anything for GFWL. They're very different things.

GFW is a spec. All it means is that the game supports widescreen, optionally the 360 pad, appears in the Vista/Win7 games explorer, stores data files in designated folders, etc. I can think of zero ways in which GFW is a bad thing.

GFW Live is multiplayer services. Communication, matchmaking etc. It's not AWFUL but compared with Steam or the in-house stuff id has always done, it's pretty crappy.

As far as copy protection, you're probably not going to get a solid answer until much closer to release.

When publishing through Activision, Id has traditionally used a disc check (usually removed a few months after release) and a cd-key for multiplayer.

Bethesda used a very mild form of SecuROM for Fallout 3 (No install limits. detailed here: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/10/31/fallout-3-drm-detailed/1 ). As the publisher, I would assume it's up to them how to protect the data they eventually ship.

This is exactly what happened with Doom 3. The game shipped with CD copy protection; the 1.3 patch removed it.

Bioshock 2 uses the Games for Windows Live badge. http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/features/bioshock2cover/bioshock2_gfw.jpg

Whats the point of GFW anyway, all it does it force the consumer to install extra software along with the game and take up space on the cover art. Sure, I use GFW(L) but because I have to. The games I own that use GFWL are Bioshock 2, GTA IV and Kane and Lynch: Dead Men. I've only had issues with GTA IV using GFWL (I was signing into my online profile and one day it just wouldn't sign in. Without signing in you can't load savegames from the online profile)

I think if the game is released with no GFW(L) and only using Securom for the first 6 - 12 months of release it would add alot of convenience for PC gamers.
I think I have a valid argument. GFW(L) adds nothing useful, games are usually 0 day cracked or even hit the net early and get cracked BEFORE release.
Being straight forward, DRM is absolutely and utterly useless. No matter what it'll get cracked usually on release date or a couple of days after.

Ah, I thought you were saying Rage had a GFWL badge on some media somewhere, my mistake.

No, I've never seen it anywhere saying that Rage will use GFWL, I'm just hoping it doesn't.

G4WL does svck some. Heh. I find it more irritating than worthless. lol I've never had a problem with SecuRom or any other kind of copy protection, I've also never illegally downloaded a game, but I'm usually aware when games are available for download (I know people who rub it in before my legit copy has arrived), and as you say it's often before release, or shortly after. Copy protection does nothing but discourage the lay user, and I'm not sure if they're plentiful or not so whether it has a huge impact on sales is a mystery to me. I'd have thought after the Spore debacle copy protection would have been a priority for a lot of developers/publishers. Improving it, at least. Then UbiSoft go ahead and get caned for the Services Platform thing.

But I've read a few articles claiming the piracy of video games is nowhere near as damaging to the industry as some would have us believe. S'like a security guard in a store, DRM, a visual deterrent with no real power to do anything. If anything it serves as a challenge to those dudes making it available for free, and a pain in the butt for us law-abiding folk with a respect for the industry and the work going into the products, all purchasing legal units.

Seems to me the best thing publishers can do is ship fracked up games that require patches, only to release patches that make the old illegal copies unplayable, patch downloads requiring some kind of information that only a unique legit unit has. Of course that'd leave those without internet connections struggling to update their games. Nothing new there, though. It'd throw the P2P networks into a storm as people downloading games would be getting defunct copies in amongst working copies, so many thousand people seeding the old versions still, those getting the versions that don't work, buggy as hell, would be less likely to attempt another download.

I'm totally opposed to DRM that has you connected to the Internet in order to play something you've purchased. Registering, entering a code, unlocking whatever, that's all fine, but not being forced to remain online. The limited number of installs thing doesn't bother me at all, as long as it gets removed at some point. But whatever, as long as Rage doesn't require any more work from me than installing the game and typing in a code, I'll be a happy bunny. If it makes me work before I can play, or forces me to stay online, I'll be uh... disgruntled.

What ever happened to the old installs? Put the disc in, insert serial, click install.

Rage should use that install system, just put the disc in, insert the serial and click install.

An alternate to most commercial and common drm systems could be the developer or publisher set up a page on it's website to report pirated serials and if the serial is reported more then 5 times it gets put on a blacklist and when ever a update to the game is released it would cause copies of the game using a pirated serial not to start.

This system would work on multiple levels, pirated copies don't work once updated (also entering multiplayer could update the blacklist) and in future since it doesn't require activation or any similar system it could still be installed regardless of what happens to the company as with systems such as Securom or others using the activation system the consumer would be unable to install the game is the company closed down.

Theoretically Rage probably shouldn't need any DRM, the game is so big it'd probably steer off most pirates due to the size.

I wonder if a multiple code pack would work for copy protection? As in, each legal unit ships with the documentation that contains say, five codes. Code one, the install code, sets up the following four codes, and the first must be compatible with the second, with the third, and the fourth etc. You enter them all at the install, and select the appropriate code at certain points in the game. So say you progress through the game, reach a certain point that relies on the unique codes. You reach a door in-game that requires the next code, you grab your documentation, enter the code (or select it from the list of five you've entered already) and continue with the game.

Without the codes you'll have essentially reached Land's End.

It would basically be like a uh, like a bouncer in a club stamping hands on the door, and then doing the rounds of the club checking the stamps. The game constantly checking your codes. But having entered all of your codes during the install it wouldn't be too much trouble. Wouldn't hacktivists have to modify game files in order to get past certain points then? I dunno. I do know one thing for a fact. Too much hassle for a guy with a legal copy is enough to put him off. lol Make gamers with illegal versions work hard for their free, buggy, unpatchable version, and if they like the game enough they'll probably give up on it and go buy a legit version.

If I had to enter multiple codes at certain points during the game I'd probably get angry and throw the game out the window.

Let's hope for a minimalist approach to DRM for Rage.

Both id and Bethesda have good reputation on this. Bethesda, almost non-existing DRM and id, just a cd-key. No need to think the opposite.

Agreed.

Bethesda has never used hardcoe DRM. That could certainly change but we have no evidence of that.

True, Bethesda has never really gone overboard with DRM. id Software has been really good with DRM as well.
Rage should have Doom 3 style copy protection. Just a serial, no disc checks none of that other crap.
I'm also hoping that Brink has a simple form of DRM since I'm looking forward to that a fair bit as well.
There's honestly nothing I hate more in PC gaming then intrusive DRM systems.

Great, Fallout New Vegas is using Steamworks.....
This probably means Rage is going to use it as well. I HATE STEAM AS A REQUIREMENT!

As a hardcoe DRM hater, I won't consider Steam as DRM. Steam is more like a dream DRM. As a requirement, it is just adding to fun, not taking anything. I would pay for a service like this and steam is free. This is why I'm defending recommending it.

If it is money, getting games from steam is cheaper, their deals are CRAZY.

I disagree there. Which I think Steam offer a better DRM than many others, I still find it very annoying to have a forced online activation for a game I bought in retail. I do not like online activations for retail games at all, especially not for single player games, and I curse Valve for starting this craziness with Half-Life 2.


That is a good thing and the only times I buy games on Steam instead of retail, but their good sales are rarely about new games. For new games the retail route is noticeably cheaper, at least around here.

Typically the true appeal of id Software titles is the multi player portion of the game, and for this purpose no DRM is actually needed because they can regulate the game by preventing redundant CD-keys. id Software has a lot of respect among the gaming community as it is because they always release their engines under Open Source licensing. For this reason, I don't feel that Rage or DOOM IV really need some stupid DRM that no one would agree to install.

A lot of people wanted a no SecuRom crack for BioShock even though they had a legitimate copy of the game, simply because no one wants to put root kits on their computers. Don't fix what ain't broke.