Am I the only one who thinks Bethesda let a golden opportunity slip past them with Ralof and Hadvar? What I mean is that both appear to have been raised in Riverwood, if not born there. Gerdur is Ralof's sister, and Alvor Hadvar's uncle I believe. I recall that when passing Bleak Falls Barrow on the walk to Riverwood Hadvar talks about having nightmares as a child about draugr coming down from the mountain to get him. While Ralof is identified as Ralof of Riverwood when Hadvar is going through the list of Stormcloaks at the very beginning. So both have obviously lived a large portion of their lives there.

So these two must have known one another before the war. I definitely get that impression when they briefly meet again during the tutorial, and you have to choose which you will follow the rest of the way. Were they friends? Were they enemies? Were they friends who fell out because Carlotta was Hadvar's girlfriend, until Ralof did the mattress dance with her?

Then after the war, whichever one of the two you followed spends the rest of his days sitting in the Riverwood inn. While the other vanishes, presumed dead or in hiding.

I am disappointed that nothing more is done with these two characters, who each symbolizes their chosen side. When I think about them, I find it to be very poignant how these two men who knew one another since childhood turned into enemies because of the war. Then afterward nothing happens with them. They do not go on with their lives. They do not reconcile. They do not start a feud like the Hatfields and McCoys. Nothing at all. I think Bethesda could have told a wonderful story about the both of them. It could have illustrated how the war tore friendships apart. A story not about battles and politics, but about people. Something also hinted at between Rikke, Galmar, and Ulfric, who appear to have all fought together in the Great War.

Something like this could have even been used as the meat of a quest. Perhaps one in which the player intercedes between them to restore their friendship? That would seem like a good Nine Divines-oriented quest. Like something Stendarr or Mara might send the character on. Or even just something local townies like Faendal or Sven or Carlotta. Or the character might fuel the fire between them, that leads to a final, murderous confrontation?

In any event, I would at least like to see them both back in Riverwood after the war ends, living in homes of their own rather than the inn. Ralof might work at the mill, and Hadvar at the smithy. Each would make great followers as well, and marriage material. That fact that they are not is one of my big disappointments in the game.

And no, this is not an Imperials vs. Stormcloaks topic. Please leave that to the trillion other threads on the subject.

I totally agree with everything you said.

(Damn, I'm good at discussing! )

Both characters should have been followers. They are your buddy in the civil war arc, and that they aren't available as followers is a bit disappointing. As for their arc of being friends growing up and split by the civil war, I do think they are a great example of two nords who both believe they are fighting to help and protect Skyrim and their people.

One weird thing: Ralof has the standard male Nord voice, but Hadvar has a unique VA. Why bother? Had they other things planned originally? Anyone knows if there's unused dialogue in their voice files? Was Ralof supposed to have a unique voice as well?

That is interesting. I never thought about that. Maybe they were going to do more with both, but like so many things, it wound up on the cutting room floor to meet the 11.11.11 date?

I'd have liked to see that as well... a microcosm of the true horror of the civil war, that it turned friend against friend, Nord against Nord. And maybe a microcosm of the hope for reconciliation afterward.

I dunno, Hadvar is also a Nord and maybe they just thought it would be too weird and confusing to give them *both* the standard male Nord voice. Especially at the beginning when you are hearing first one, then the other, then back again, all in fairly short succession. Why Hadvar got the nod for a unique voice instead of Ralof though... they didn't do him any favors, though, IMO, vocally I just don't find him very memorable whereas Ralof's is one of my favorite voices in the game (and thank the gods since it's everywhere).

Still, they could have used one of the other standard voice guys fur Hadvar.

True.

One thing I would like to see is after the war, if the player does reconcile the two, that they start a business together. Riverwood is pretty well stocked with vendors, having a smithy, general store, and an inn with an alchemy table. The only thing it is missing is a magic shop/wizard. But I cannot see either Ralof or Haddie doing that. At first I was thinking they might become hunters and sell the meat, like the two wood elf brothers in Whiterun. But then I thought, why not a brewery? They could open up the Riverwood meadery. After all, can Nords ever get enough alcohol?

LOL I also agree with everything SubRosa said. Boy, are we agreeable!

Hmm, it is a very interesting point though. Anyone here remember the mini series http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088583/? It was the story of two business men, who met and became friends, very good friends. And then the Civil War broke out. It split their families and friendships apart, since one served the Southern army and the other was part of the Yankee forces. It made for some interesting conflict to say the least. Was an amazing show.

It truly seems that there's some missed story potential here.

I haven't seen that in years! Thanks for bringing it up. Now it is in my Netflix rotation. That is exactly the kind of thing I had in mind between Ralof and Hadvar.

we kinda touched on this briefly in the Ulfric fangirl/boy thread.

But yeah I agree 100% on the missed opportunity.

It really goes to show that two boys grew up in the same town but on opposite sides of the street, and the war.

Depending on your actions in the civil war, you meet up with one or the other but then thats it.

Now they both sit (depending on the side you chose) drinking mead all day. I think they should have been marriable after the war or at least followers. But both I think. There was so much more from them we could have had.

OMG, I looooved that series!

Apparently, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1423445-alcohol-ruined-my-nords-life/.

I'm a little iffy on the idea of Hadvar returning to Riverwood, he is a soldier in the Legion after all and doesn't appear to have been one of the recent local recruits. I mean if they win, theoretically he could be discharged from the service and go home but if they lose that wouldn't seem as logical to me, IMO he'd either have died in the fighting or be part of the remnants of the Legion that presumably withdrew back to Cyrodiil. Except for the hidden camps in the wilderness, but I don't think anyone wants to see Hadvar turn up there because if you played as a Stormcloak that would make him an enemy for the rest of the game.

Ralof though I can see returning in either scenario, if the SCs win he's discharged from service and if they lose, well, the war's over and any surviving SCs not hiding in camps just go on home. There's no central authority or command structure left to order them to do anything else, unlike with Hadvar where the Legion is still the Legion even if they lose and have to withdraw from the province.