In one of the demos the developer mentioned that the enemies will spawn in different locations each time you replay the mission. I was very happy to hear this. This randomness can really take the replayability to a new level. It's especially important in stealth games where you avoid enemies and don't mess up their routines. Quite a few stealth games unfortunaltely allows you to figure out a path that will work every time, and once you've done that the game loses its charm.

Now I'm wondering how extensive this randomness will be. A few different spawn points is certainly better than one, but sooner or later you learn these patterns as well. What I'm hoping for is a really extensive randomness. Not only spawn points but also paths the enemies patrol and some unpredictability in their routines. That feeling where you constantly have to keep on your toes and always check around every corner is what really makes a fantastic experience.

Do you think Dishonored will deliver on this front?

Well in addition to different locations where guards patrol, they also will stop and interact with objects or people sometimes. I imagine programming varying probabilities of when a guard finds an object interesting or will get into conversation with a random person, making it more and more likely that you'll always have someone somewhere to contend with---that elements like that will help Dishonored deliver on a vibrant front and a feeling that there's never a sure safe spot.

It's not a really complex design but it delivers so much replayability with such a simple yet deep design technique that will remove iteration. Deus Ex:Human Revolution had that issue. Guards where always moving in the same set paths and if you knew the timing you could complete an area without even augments. It's not really all that bad but I do like a challenge and let's hope that the A.I. offers one.

As far as i understood they said it about your targets, not all enemise. I may be wrong thought.

There were a couple of interviews mentioning the same thing about the guards as well and what Calrabjohns mentioned.

I can't remember exactly, maybe as strifecross said they have talked about it a few different times. Or maybe I just misunderstood.

Anyway it seems that the developers are on top of things

If that mechanic where the guards interact with people and objects works out well, I can imagine very interesting situations taking place. Especially if you have the means to manipulate the situations creatively.

They are designed to be random and stall time. Nothing ground breaking or anything. Although I really want to try stopping time and killing one of the guards while he is in a conversation.

Man you are too harsh on them, if it really works than it will be rather groundbreaking, although i can't quite grasp how the enemies can spawn every time in random spots without breaking the game.

I think you can spawn enemies randomly relatively easy. Have a certain enemy density and a lot of pre determined spawn points. Then make sure enemies are spread out somewhat evenly across the map. Sure some areas will be easier on some playthroughs but very hard on others. But with this game you always seem to have very many options how to go about things so once you've scouted the area you can decied which way to go about things. While quite simple it can really make things fun when you constantly have to improvise.

Probably a set number of spawn locations. It would be ground breaking if the A.I. was so interactive that you felt like you were battling against real people who can think and adapt and not moveable observers who react only to your presence.

One of the selling points of this game is the randomness/replayability. But I understand your skepticism since many companies talk all grandios about their plans for a game but when the game comes out there are a few missing features that didn't quite make it to the final product. And I agree with Rusty Cleaver that this issue must be a key component of Dishonored.

With all the work Arkane Studios have invested in AI and stealth mechanics it'd be a terrible waste not to let randomized enemy spawns multiply the challenges that bring these features to life.

Well, not terrible. I will still get the game and enjoy it the way i've enjoyed my ten playthroughs of Dark Messiah xD

The other thing to factor in is Corvo himself will spawn at different points on the map each time you replay a mission as well.

http://www.shogungamer.com/news/14060/dishonored-e3-impressions-one-best-games-e3

It's the paragraph below the third picture in the article. Talks about enemies, Corvo, targets---it actually blanketed all NPCs as randomly placed but I can't imagine there would ever be a completely empty lounge in the Golden Cat.

I think this feature will work pretty well

I saw that, and I feel like it might have just been video editing to make the demo go a little faster.
No one seems to remember this. I hope Arkane doesn't throw this part out the window.

Well I know in the demo we actually saw that Corvo started in two different places, but I think the writer was saying that's a general feature that will be in the game.

"All of the NPC locations, including the main targets, are completely randomly generated on every play through. ...This same mechanic also includes most of the spawn points for your own character when you replay levels."

There was a previous sentence that I excised from the quote because it didn't pertain to the randomness but rather on stealth.

Now either the author of the article inferred that from the demos shown or this will be the case. I'm hoping the latter obviously.

Yeah, but i can't quite wrap my mind around it.So these two brothers are not always in the same locations?The one that is in the steam room for example, its obviously a scripted moment, and in the old lady's book their locations are mentioned. So maybe they spawn in different places, but eventually come to these same rooms or something, or it depends on the time you spend to infiltrate the building, so at one point in time you can meet them in these rooms, but at another one they are in different rooms?

The targets' positions isn't the only thing that brings replayability. Hitman didn't need that, instead it offered a variety of ways to get through a mission and it was still amazing to play over and over again. Don't focus too much on those things is what I am saying.

I don't care so much about targets position. After all it is only a small part of the mission. Once you played through it a couple of times you've found quite a few ways to move around the map. Scouting out where the target might be hiding might be fun but not of high importance.

The guards routine on the other hand can really spice things up and constantly force you into new and exciting situations. To enjoy a game I need that feeling of novelty, otherwise I just feel lika a puppet passively reenacting someone elses story.

A good story and good gameplay doesn't have to conflict but when they do I always prefer better gameplay over story. A quote from Harvey Smith:
"Story is not the purpose of a videogame. So for us, we want something universal to draw the player in, and then the gameplay is the main star."
I agree with him. A game is first and foremost something you play, and while good story will enhance the experience the game mechanics are what will keep me playing. There is a trend in large blockbuster videogames to focus all their attention on story, filled to the brim with cutscenes and scripted events. To me those games just aren't enjoyable no matter how great the story is.

Just how I feel. Great potential that hopefully will keep me coming back for more over and over again.



I found an interesting quote by Colantonio that seems to enforce randomisation but at the same time undersell the concept:
"Everything is a little different every time. We randomise the position of your targets. The patrols might not be exactly the same"
While nice to hear it sound as if the patrol routes will mainly stay the same, with some small variations sprinkled in. I certainly hope for a bit beefier variation than that.

The most amazing thing about this medium is that it can deliver narrative through play. A few games do that and it is really hard to be keep meaning within context. Max Payne 3 was a disaster for me and as a fan I felt insulted but I am not entitled to anything after all. It delivered it's 'story' through a ton of cutscenes and that should never be the case. You should never show or tell but let the player DO. Heavy Rain is a great example of interactivity within cutscenes. You're basically playing a movie with that game. I agree with you but I think that the best game (whenever it may come) will be a perfect synergy between gameplay and story.

Call me the eternal optimist. I'm picturing a hypothetical three or four random entry points for Corvo and maybe six for enemy placement, using the GC as the mission setting since that's what we've seen most. Less for Corvo because of his notoriety and the need for an appropriate start place that is equidistant from any targets or overly advantageous positioning for a mission. The enemies you don't have to have those placement concerns---it'd be the opposite concern but I think they'll land on the side of more organically difficult patterns.

On a totally separate note, I want to rectify my gaming sins. Does anyone know how I can acquire and play the System Shock games without either being a thief or having to donate plasma to buy new, or used for that matter, copies?

Try gog.com. Old games that can run on new hardware thanks to the guys who brought us The Witcher 2.

I don't see how they're going to explain the random starting point and I don't really see a need for it. Because you're going to be carried out to the mission hub area with the help of the guys in the tavern. Thief started every level at the same spot and the way you approached a mission was still extremely varied due to great level design. Even if I get spawned at a different location I will still explore the entire mission area so I don't mind it but it seem unnecessary.

You can get Arx Fatalis from there, all free from Steam related connection requirements. Plus another 400 titles. Silver is among them! Great game- features a combat system that makes you drag the mouse pointer in vertical and horizontal lines across the screen to perform lounges and side swipes for a charming pixel toddler named David. Lost his wife he did.. poor chap. And now he's on a vengeful quest to get her back.

Checked gog.com, Steam, Origin...it's the one set of cornerstone games I can't find in any digital form. Physical copies are 80 at the least from preliminary searching.

I can't say I understand the logistics of how Corvo would be placed somewhere. Maybe there's a brief scene of Corvo going to shore, a fade to black and a drop into a different spot. That sounds horrible reading that. I like the hypothetical variety but don't see it in practical terms. There might be potentially a more immediate sense of needing to move before discovery depending on deployed spot coupled with guard placement or even Citizen Joe freaking out and jetting it to find a guard depending on where you start. Still, that's five minutes at most and then another five to get your bearings. It is take it or leave it in comparison to targets and guards randomizing. I just get excited and seize on certain things.

I've ehh...I've only played Thief: DS. Like I said, I've got catching up to do.


Oh I know I can get Arx Fatalis. I'm looking mighty forward to having a computer again and amassing a collection. Bought a copy of Dark Messiah on the ol' Amazon. Also looking forward to the Thief collection, Planescape: Torment, Vampire: Bloodlines (I think the other one is supposed to be better but that's also not available from where I've looked), Amnesia: TDD---I want to be baptized in the PC waters.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120315223630/dishonoredvideogame/images/3/30/636040_120312_640screen004.jpg is a picture of Corvo approaching the Golden Cat area in a boat, presumably before the level starts

I meant multiple spawn points for him if that author at ShogunGamer is right. I'm still going to peek at the shot even though I think I know what it is though