Greetings

I would like to discuss something wich is really important for an MMORPG in my opinion. Maybe the most important part of the Puzzle at all.

The Release.

Ive played almost every MMORPG since 1996 and was in alot Beta tests. If there is something the History of MMORPGs tolt me its: If you Fail the Release your Game will Fail.

There where so many games with so much potential, good ideas and great Worlds who died the first Days, Weeks or month because of that.

MMORPG Players are not forgiving and not forgetting. Once they are gone you lost them. No matter how hard you try and how many Patches, Fixes and Content you deliver. They are Gone.

I think thats something that MMORPG Developers and/or Publishers should get in thier Head.

Even if you really really wish to return to an Game that failed the Release you will not have very much fun with it.

I take Vanguard Saga of Heros for an Prime example here but it could be alot other games too:

Everyone who knows Vanguard knows it was almost unplayable at release. Bugged to a Maximum, unfinished and even a new PC could not Handle it very good because of the Engine and Graphics.

So Peoples who played the Beta didnt even buy it or left it really Quick.

Vanguard was a very Expensive Game and they could not handle so many Peoples jump off the Train. They had a really small Team left to work on it. And even if those Peoples worked thier ass off to Fix the Game and Patching the Hell out of it. Players did not come back. And even if they did ( like i did) they found an almost dead empty Game and left again.

When i was coming back to Vanguard it was really playable. The most Bugs are Gone, the game had one of the best Crafting and Housing Systems of all MMORPGs ever released and the Classes where different, interesting and fun to play. But it does not help if the world feels empty and you could not find players to play with.

This happend to alot of MMORPGs. Aion, SWTOR, Age of Conan, DDO, Star Trek, Vanguard, EQ2, Horizons.. all Games with a great potential and fantastic ideas.

I really Hope that Zenimax knows that and Aviod that on release.

Your Game will be no worth the Money you did spend on it during the developing if you have a Buggy Game, if its not finished and/or if the Endcontent is missing. If one of this Fails, your costumers will run anway and never come back.

This is my point of view. You guys (and Girls) think different? You have other experiances? I would like to read your point of view.

PS: Im german so please dont flame me for my English. Im trying my best here

http://www.labspaces.net/pictures/blog/4e5466b7dc69f1314154167_blog.jpg, there's no real PvE endgame at launch and there's a mega-server to try and alleviate most technical launch problems.

So do you think they should put off launch till 2014 to have more time to work on it?

You make it seem like all modern MMOs are released as buggy messes, which is far from true.

Some MMOs get off to bad starts and fail for different reasons. Hellgate London due to poor planned business model, Tabula Rasa was ahead of its time, Lego Univers didnt appeal to a large enough crowd.

Not at all. I have no idea how finished the game will be on release. I have trust in Zenimax so far. It seems like they know what they doing.

I just think the game would fail if its not finished and bugged at release.

Its was like that around 20 times and did never work. It will not be different in ESO if the release isnt good.

But if its not finished for the release date then, yes they should delay it as much they need to do it. The Eso Fans will buy it on a later date also. Im sure there is not one single person think "Wow if i get the game 3 month later i will not buy it anymore"

Its much better then kill the Game on the first day already.

if 'real PvE' means entering an instanced dungeon and thus ignoring the fact that you play an MMO then I hope there never will be 'real PvE' in ESO.

No there where some good launches also.

Wow had an very good launch in my opinion. Only the usual server problems and stuff. And they could deliver the End content as soon the first Peoples where ready for it.

Rift launch was kinda good too.

I was talking about great MMORPGs with much potential to have a great name in the MMORPG marked. Hellgate London wasnt a MMORPG, Tabula Rasa and Lego Universe never had the chance to be a Big name because they didnt appeal very many Players.

But even if i count them in.. you are right. There where some who didnt had alot release problems and still failed. But thats a Minoriy.

Hmm, 3 max-level-zone? Heroic Dungeons? Public Quest? 3 max-level-zone equals Cyrodil in my opinion. Also Cyrodil if PVPVE zone.

So then what was the point of this thread again?

And yes, Hellgate is/was an MMORPG. Clearly you've never played it. And Tabula Rasa would do quite well if it were updated graphically and released today.

Its not only the Bugs im talking about.

Its about how finished the game is for release. I know MMORPGs are envolving all the time.

But if there is to much missing it could be a reason for a bad start too.

If Races, Classes, Skills, Items, Questlines, Content and other things are just missing.

EQ1 did that the best way in my opinion. They released Content when the average player did not even get close to the end.

Wow did it ok also. As soon the first players reached Max level they released Molten Core.

The point of this Thread? Discussion? What is the point for you for a Forum at all?

I did play Hellgate for about 2 hours. It was more like Diablo then an MMORPG. I hope you dont count Diablo to the MMORPGs.

i do not think u are right about that they can prolong the game as much as they need to, there are lots of people w8ing for this game and if it is delayed too much they will get frustrated and leave it for good. i m hopping this game will be released in early 4th Q, not the hole game but at least some kind of open beta or just some portion of game like starter edition and then they can introduce the rest of the game, even if they do it in stages people will still be interested because there is lots of low lvl in game content and at least me will find that more satisfying than w8ing another year for a game and then rushing to max lvl.

I agree that the game needs to be released but not for these reasons. If it is left too long the graphical system that it is built on will be yesterdays, and it really needs to be the peppiest, prettiest thing out there at release. I don't think that a few months will hurt though.

Well MMORPGs are never known of thier hardcoe Mega Graphics but i agree with you. If they had to delay the launch they should not do it to much.

There are some MMORPGs who did it to much and they failed too. Darkfall to name one.

But some month delay with an Beta running would not hurt very much. Still better then a bad release.

I really don't mind endgame content missing on launch, since no people within the range of sanity would be able to enjoy it for the first couple of months anyway. It takes time for an endgame layer of players to form, this time should be enough to adjust and add endgame material.

Delay may help certain titles to get ready.er, while it may ruin the chances for other titles beyond recovering. There are titles you mentioned that successfully adapted and survived in some ways. One reason they were able to recover, is because they gained more insight about the market, they learned to manage their games better.

I've played Vanguard from beta and 6 odd years and 4 level 55s i'm still playing the game. The game was buggy at release but some of us had a better time with it than others, my main problem was getting stuck and falling through the world no and again. Vanguard reached the 200k mark but many did leave and a small community stayed on but it was a great community and very mature.

As Vanguard stands now the game is heaving and plenty of people are playing the game, it has the best classes and open non instanced world of any mmo today. It also has many great features that really make the game more of a hybrid than a themepark.

Anyway you are right in the fact that it's very hard to bounce back if you don't get it right the first time.

I agree, when people say their is no endgame PVE they must be looking at another game lol, teso has more PVE content than it does PVP.

I did play it too here and there.

Its a Very good game after all. But still. Every time i play it i have such a "Hopeless" feeling. I know Vanguard did not shut down and probl. not will the near future. But it always sweeps over me when im playing it. Like playing a Beta when you know your Chars. will be deleted soon.

When i really give it a try i did level a Paladin and i was almost max level to Raid the Ancient Port Warehouse almost my full guild left because there was the Age of Conan release and i was kinda left alone. They did come back after a wile and asked me to play again but i didnt want to.

I had that in other games too. But even if there was a new release there are still many peoples left to play with. Vanguard has a small playerbase and you really remark every player leaving.

But thats kinda offtopc now I think Vanguard had much more "healthy" years if they didnt fail the Release. Same for many other games.

In my opinion, day1 very much decides about the future of the Game for a Big part.

I have been playing mmo's since Meridian59, and mudz before that, I have been in Alpha to beta in many mmo's over the years, I have seen great launches and I have seen horrible launches, but one thing all games have at launch is "you only have one chance to make a first impression"

We do not know what the state of TESO is, we have no idea how polished or unpolished it may be, I tested lotro for a long time, the game was ready for launch but Turbine kept in beta and polished it for an extra three months, and for me lotro was one of the best launched games I have ever played.

I guess a lot depends on how big the wallet of a company is, and are they able to afford to hang on for that extra polish before those box sales, I hope ZOS does the right thing keeps the bean counters at bay, and launches a quality product, and no amount of polish will get rid of every bug, but we can hope ZOS is fast to fix bugs, and the bugs they have are just minor and nothing game breaking, and are not afraid of doing a hotfix if needed, and not letting bugs linger until a regular scheduled update like I have seen other games do.

Rift had polished launch.. but cant say it exactly worked, it went down pretty much at the same rate as most MMOs does. Those who like the game stick with it, and most importantly pay the sub. If you can effectively fish back players from breaks and make sure all, every one of them, who're playing your game enjoy it, might work.

I personally think where MMORPG devs has room to improve quite much, is exactly that "fish back players" part, if someone is on the fence, get them! Not to mention progression needs to work for casual/hardcoe players, it must work, both of them needs to be satisfied, not only the no-life-kids, where this genre is currently.

Rift had a great launch and i would not consider it a fail. Even if they lost alot costumers the first weeks. I did play it and it wasnt simply my thing. Got bored really fast.

The ting is..

a excellent Lunch does not give you a 100% Sucess for your MMORPG. Thats depends on many other things after the lunch.

But a Horrible Lunch is (in my opinion) a 100% Chance to Fail the game.

@ Kevlarto I agree with you. Thats what im trying to say

If that floats your boat