Oh boy, another open world PvP thread. I think the horse has already fossilized.

Seriously though, Zenimax have a plan they want for this game and they aren't going to change this close to release.

Not to mention, I've never actually seen any MMO that had a pure PvP server have any long term life span. I think it was DAOC (Someone correct me here if I have the wrong game) created a pure PvP server and it was a failure. Only the hardcoe PvPers were on it and there wasn't actually that many. The PvEers and the 'occasional' PvPers stayed on the main servers were there was an actual population.

Also, a separate PvP server goes completely against the Megaserver concept.

And really, is there any actual evidence of the thousands of players wanting open world PvP? Or are they just a random number pulled out of the air? If there were that many players wanting open world PvP, PvP servers wouldn't be so empty most of the time.

I think people get confused with open world and sandbox.

Also, when will this horse die? Not everyone wants an open world PvP server and all of you complaining about it haven't even played in Cyrodiil yet. So there really isn't any reason for you to complain.

So, open world PvP = sandbox?

Anyway, this discussion has been done to death but I'll say this: people keep saying "I could do X in TES (kill random villagers unprovoked, pickpocket, etc.) so I want to do it in ESO" without mentioning that while you could do those things, you couldn't have them done TO you. Why? Because it's annoying and people wouldn't keep playing. Obviously, a death sentence for a multiplayer game.

Dang it! Open world PvP. Knew I'd forgotten about at least one dead horse.

I'm seriously gonna make a "Should Imperials be added in an exansion" poll here. Just so we can collect the whole set.

Being open world doesn't make your game a sandbox. Stop confusing the two words.

http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/penelopae/blog/rpg-defined-what-is-a-sandbox-mmo/89881/ By penelopae January 8, 2012http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/penelopae/blog/rpg-defined-what-is-a-sandbox-mmo/89881/#comments-block

The term “sandbox MMO” is defined as a virtual world or society within a game, that has no direct impact on real life. Plenty of social opportunities exist for players within the community-like setting, usually in the form of organizations like guilds, cities, or clans. Players in sandbox MMOs can join those groups, or perhaps none at all choosing the be a mysterious stranger type of character.

Sandbox MMOs offer the freedom of choice. Characters explore the game on their own terms, and for the most part enjoy open-ended goals that allow them to explore all the sandbox MMO has to offer at their own pace. Whether a low-level tradesman or a high-ranking combatant, people-pleasing politician or eager explorer, all characters fit a social niche within the community. Encouraging players to live and work with each other in a sandbox MMO provides goals that involve interacting with the community. Sure it's possible for players to grind their characters to the highest attainable levels, but those who do miss the point of the game. Roleplay is paramount to the success of a sandbox MMO.

Characters who thrive within a sandbox MMO are the brainchildren of players who take the time to develop them. Those characters usually have a detailed background. Even if the background isn't long and drawn out, the details that do exist are big enough to permanently impact on that character's life. Maybe the character's parents left him in the woods and forest creatures raised him. Perhaps a character kidnapped from his home lived at sea for a time, trapped aboard a pirate ship. Or it could be that the character ran away from home to escape some negative aspect of childhood that they aren’t quite ready to face. For players who thrive on daily drama, a sandbox MMO certainly helps fill the need for it.

For a sandbox MMO to survive among the wide array of MMORPGs available, it helps to have a great amount of areas to explore that are widely diverse. In games produced by Iron Realms, players can adventure their way through physical terrain including, but certainly not limited to, dungeons and caves, deserts, mountains, tropical islands, forbidden cities floating high above the clouds. Characters who reach the borders of a sandbox MMO usually don’t stop there, and many go on to become volunteer builders who use their imaginations to help expand and develop the game for the benefit of their peers.

Combat within a sandbox MMO is often player-versus-player, or PvP. Each of the five Iron Realms games allow players to engage their characters in both hand-to-hand and group combat. Activities like sparring another person or participating in a full-out raid on a city or other organization isn’t uncommon. Without the team aspect of a sandbox MMO, it becomes one big single-player game which defeats the purpose of its existence.

Sandbox MMOs, especially the ones produced by Iron Realms, make it possible for all kinds of characters of varying personality types to interact in a virtual realm. Features like the MMO item mall allow players with a talent for economics and finance to build a cache of elite accessories and weapons that offer an extra edge over the competition. Time and commitment allow players to master multiple classes and gain knowledge that helps them survive within the community.

Too many Khajiit in this game for sandboxes. no....

Open world PvP = without any artificial PvP ruleset that limit the player ability to decide his/her action in-game.

In Tamriel fantasy setting - the goverment have laws similar to Skyrim for instance.

It's more realistic and a better challenge, which is great.

You listed Ultima, which was great for the time and then two games which are doing horribly bad. Simply put though, they won't do this as it goes against the core design of the game. The horse is already in the grave.

Again you are confusing sandbox and open world. Just because a game has open world to it doesn't make it a sandbox game.

Great for you doesn't mean great for all. Lets have faith that zos knows their demographics shall we.

Well, fair enough, m8. That's an opinion and I respect that, and I'm certain there're many here who have similar opinions,

but to name it megaserver and remove certain mmo features doesn't include all type of players who enjoy a better challenge with more playing vs players options, and less vs. AI (npc).

Okay, what 'mmo features' have been removed.

There is still mass PvP in Cyrodil and not every MMO game has open world PvP anyway, so it's not a primary feature of MMOs.

Sandbox to me more means that what players do can change the game world, and also from what players do new emergent gameplay is the result. Emergent game play means that from what the players have done has changed the way the game can be played. For instance in Ultima Online you had books you could write in and other players could read those books. So you could use those books to leave clues for player made quests, this equals emergent gameplay.

It really has nothing to do with full loot open world PvP, it just happens that most sandbox type MMO's also have or had that feature. There really is nothing sandbox about being able to attack any player anywhere in the game, that is open world PvP and has pretty much nothing to do with the term sandbox when talking about MMO's.

Also with the way PvP will be in ESO it will be very much like open world PvP, I know this for a fact because I played Dark Age of Camelot for over 5 years and the PvP for ESO is modeled after that game. The only players you will not be able to fight will be the players that are from your own alliance and I suspect at some point that may change with the addition of an arena in the Imperial City in Cyrodiil. I don't know this for sure but it seems likely that this would be added in at some point in ESO development.

Your sarcasm detector's broken, I'm afraid. Gonna take a while to fix. Gotta order a part in from Japan, y'see.

It has been tried online. THe only successful game that still pulls it off in this day and age is EvE. While cool it is still a niche game. ZOS is not aiming for a niche game.

There's very little sandbox in the Elder Scrolls franchise...

Well, games like Battlefield 4, CoD, Destiny and similar PVP settings are niche online games?

You've 1 single player campaign, rest of the game is based on PvP competitions among players in team vs team. And on hardcoe mode which I enjoy due to the challenge, you

also have friendly fire with no map options. It's not a different, but some games is based on a sci-fi fantasy.

The main difference, instead wielding sword & magic in tamriel - you've modern guns, or lasers in sci-fi.

Yes, unfortunately, it's, but I'll still buy the game, because of TES lore.

You still bought Skyrim, and Oblivion, etc. There's hardly any sandbox features in any of the games. Not just TESO.

Wait, are you seriously using games like Battlefield and CoD as support to an argument for open world PvP?

They are shooters, based on a small stand alone map. They are nothing like ESO, or Ultima or DAOC or EVE. They can't really be considered MMOs either since they don't exactly have 'massive' amounts of players.

I voted no because you are asking for a complete overhaul. I don't think you realize how much work that is.

Try the game, if you don't dig it...seeya!

I have faith that it will be grand as is.

I will say I prefer the sandbox types myself though