I own a ps3, i have purchased oblivion and fallout 3 on this platform, i don't however own skyrim on ps3, luckily i got a new pc recently so bought it for this. I do however sympathise with everyone going through issues in regards to skyrim problems on the ps3. Ranting, boycotts etc will not achieve any results, you have bought the game already, they have your money. Instead of wasting time in this pointless endevour why doesnt someone seek legal advice in regards to this issue, selling a defective product is not legal i don't think. This will make bethesda sit up and notice, let a lawyer handle this, that is how the big boys deal with situations, not ranting and raving or blabbing on about boycotting them which would last no longer than 6 months.

This would make them realise you are serious, and the consequences for them in terms of a legal battle would be far worse than if you were to just boycot their products for a while.

After the next patch, if this issue is not remedied, i would suggest taking this course of action, it might not work, but it would achieve more than sitting on here crying about not buying their games anymore

Anyway, just a suggestion, im moderatly happy with my purchase, but if i was in your shoes i would be fuming.

So instead of just not doing anything if the next patch doesn't work, you will waste thousands of dollars hiring an attorney and going after a corporation that made over 200 million in revenue off just their last game in two days? Do you have any idea of the legal defenses a company like that can afford? Also, I guarantee that this is not grounds for a legal suit. If it was, it would have happened to a million other game studios that released a buggy game at launch (i.e; pretty much every game studio).

Everyone needs to chill the eff out. I am having lag issues too. I gotta deal with it. It'll get fixed. If it doesn't, trade in the game, swallow the loss, and don't buy another Beth game on PS3. There.

This would essentially be the same as if you ordered a $60 dinner at a nice restaurant and you weren't happy with your meal, so instead of sending it back (waiting for Beth to fix it) you immediately try and sue the restaurant for the offense.

Its simply a suggestion, compared with ranting and raving it does hold some merits. It does not just come down to money, many lawyers would want to be involved in a high profile case. im not from america so this approach may differ depending on your location.

I'm not suggesting, hurr lets go sue bethesda now hurr, im just saying tha based on their previous actions with regards to patching and the ps3, it doesnt look promising. Thats why i said, wait till after the first patch, if its not fixed by then, then it most likely will never be.

Like i said before though, im happy with my purchase, but at the end of the day, its hard earned money you are spending for a game that you can't enjoy, and which bethesda most likely knowingly put on the shop shelves (dont tell me they didnt try the game on ps3 before launch). From what ive seen, its more than just 'buggy', its makes the game unplayable, this in my books would be grounds for at least just asking a lawyer where you would stand on the issue.

Seek legal advice? LOL Please take a recorder into that meeting with a lawyer. I would love to hear them laugh their ass off at you and to hear their response. This will be gold. Please post response on here.

You actually could sue them, but not for the original version (broken) of the game or maybe you could considering it is fraud. But I think it'd be much easier if the last patch does not fix the lag. If they don't release a statement explaining specifically that the patch will fix our version, or don't say anything about it at all they're just tricking consumers into not returning their copy of a faulty game long enough so they can't return it even if it remains broken. We have asked repeadetly about the patch with no answer whatsoever.

What damages do you have, even if you won and the court made Beth pay Legal Fees, you would only get 60 dollars. ?The game doesn't work but it doesn't do any harm outside of that so a law suit would be rather stupid.

serious? its america, they can sue for anything over there lol. Its merely a suggestion, if so many are really not happy with their purchase, then this should be addressed by any respectable company, if they don't then you have no other choice but to seek legal advice on the matter, ranting and raving will not achieve anything. Get a crappy subpar meal in a restauraunt? more than often you would get a full refund, get a subpar electrical appliance? you get refunded, i dont see how this basic response from companies does not apply to game companies.

no, you'd actually force bethesda to a product recall, losing many millions of the ps3 owners who's version is broken. It's not about money either, this is about a company [censored] us over and not giving enough of a [censored] to tell us yes it will be fixed or no it won't. it's about them learning their lesson and making them think twice before releasing a broken game

times that $60 by 300,000 or so purchases on the ps3?

I will agree with you on two things:
A) It is America and people do seem to sue for the dumbest things
Ranting and raving will do nothing

I really feel for those having problems. But the reaction many are taking is quite childish.

i agree with mer. He has taken the courtesy to give some suggestions even though it clearly does not concern him in anyway since he owns the PC version.

Ranting and complaining here does not pose any threat to bethesda therefore they have little reason to accommodate you. They have your money thats all they care. Their product has been sold. It is because they have successfully managed to pass the most difficult stage of the marketing process (having you buy the product), and therefore would not have any reason to accommodate your demands. If anything is done by bethesda it is clearly out of care for their customers.

If you want them to truly take action, make them feel threatened and show them how big of an issue this is. It doesnt have to be legal action but it can be anything from bad reviews to giving the company a bad image to decrease their potential customer list for the PS3 version of the game.

Those people who can't be bothered to take action, are pushovers. You have been screwed with so DO something about it. Don't sit back and let bethesda laugh their ass off while u do nothing about it.

I think the most anyone would get is their money back, which to be honest would be a fair result.

agreed, it would be nice for this not to come to legal action, bethesda should realise their mistakes and rectify them, or at least inform the purchasers of their plans to fix the problem. If you bought a tv from sony, it worked 'ok' but not like they said, you would in most cases get a full-refund and appology from the company, i dont see how bethesda are exempt from this process. in most cases however, companies take these complaints and act on them, if you had a faulty toaster, you would take it back and get a refund, or the company would do a recall, which is why you would never have to take the matter further (ie legal action) because the company would rectify this.

Yes but did you buy those 300,000 copies ?? No you bought only 1 copy and so can only sue for $60 --- IF you get an attorney to sue on behalf of all buyers then they would have to contat each buyer and get them to sign on to the law suit and the most you would get is $60 per complainant + perhaps legal fees (so the lawyer would make some money) and to even get that much you'd have to prove it was a fault of Bethesdas and not something inherent with the PS3 or even a combination of the 2 (in which case you'd also have to sue Sony. and to prove that you'd need expert witnesses that can anolyze the problems and find what is causing the problem and who is at fault and they aren't cheap and you can not sue to get reimburshed for the cost of hiring them to testify for you ! so in the end most likely you'd be out many thousands of dollars if not hundreds of thousands by the time SONY and BETH dragged things out for years and each person might get a discount on the next Bethesda product they buy.

Also if you are not satisfied with the product you would first need to follow methods to mitigate your damages and the court would probably find that you could have merely returned the product and gotten your money back and therefore deny your case from proceeeding in which case you'd be liable for the attorneys fees and they would sue you to recover them !

Good to get an experienced opinion on the law side of this matter, it works differently in NZ, we have a consumer guarantees act which acts as a buffer between the courts and the company. Still though, it would at least draw attention to this matter if its not fixed. At the end of the day, you paid a days wages for the game, if beth dont fix it you should be entitled to your money back, a company with morals and ethics should address this, so lets cross our fingers and hope they do

JUst buy a 360 it will save you money.......

Wow are you really discussing suing Bethesda in their own forums? *waits for thread to get noticed by a mod and locked*

In any event, no there's no grounds for any kind of lawsuit here. You'd have to be able to prove that Bethesda knew (or at least should have known) that they were shipping a product that would be a total waste of money for all users or in some way dangerous to the public at large. Since the game doesn't present actual danger, you'd have a really hard time showing that they knew the game was fully defective and had no intention whatsoever of fixing said problems. Since you can't possibly even begin to prove that, and (this one's really critical) since they can easily show that most people are playing the game without problems then your lawsuit would never even be heard in court.

I'm a law student and have already studied sales and consumer law in Sweden. Therefore, I don't know anything about American law, but if this were to be judged in Swedish law, then the only way to "get to Bethesda" would be to say that the goods is defected.

The risk of the product is yours, and thus it is normally you to prove the goods is defective.
However, if the seller has given you a guarantee, then it's up to the seller to prove the product is NOT defective. If the seller can't prove this, the then product is presumed to be defective within 6 months.
The Swedish consumer law is mandatory and any contract that puts the consumer in a worse position than the law is null and void.

Once we have that stated, we need to see what penalties which can be invoked. At first, the seller is obliged to remedy the problem or redeliver the product. This is what Bethesda naturally would do. Remedy is taking the course of action to patch. Redeliver wouldn't help you in this case, cause if the whole version you have is problematic, then a new product would have the same defects as the other one, obviously. The remedy (patching) is something the seller can DEMAND to do first, if it can happen within a reasonably time and without significant inconvenience to the buyer. Can it happen within a reasonably time and without a significant inconvenience to you as a buyer? Perhaps, perhaps not. One can argument for and against this matter.
If neither remedy nor redeliver happens, you can demand price reduction or a termination of the contract (none of which is very relevant for you in this case, I assume).

Independent of above, you can also claim damages. This covers both indirect and direct losses that you have suffers. The terms indirect and direct are somewhat discussed and complicated, but in general you could claim damages for any kind of losses you have suffered. It covers suffered losses related to other products which Skyrim has caused damages to (very doubtful in this case) and damages to the specific defective product Skyrim (most likely in this case).

Damages would be so low in this case that it would be practically useless to even demand it. There is one possibility though that you can get damages for the time you've been without your game, if you can prove that the game was so important to you that it caused you a discomfort or inconvenience that would have been avoided if you would have received a proper, functional working product. In
jurisprudence, this has been invoked for for instance if a person gets defective gardening tools and has to do the gardening by hand until the functional working products arrive. In this case, this would be doubtful, but still possible. If you would have buyed another game as a covering purchase, you would also receive damages for the (reasonable) price difference between these two products.

The most natural cause would be that the seller remedies the problem within a reasonably time and without a significant inconvenience to you as a buyer, and if that can't happen that you get to terminate the contract or get a price reduction.

What difference is that to criticising them and trying to start boycotts etc. Hopefully it will catch their attention and it may get something done. Like i said earlier, i am not well versed in american law, its just a suggestion. Ideally if you were not happy, the store would take the product back and offer a refund, but we all know this would never happen. Beth would have known these problems existed, if they somehow didnt know it doesnt change the fact that the product is still defective. Most people are playing the game without problems on the 360 and pc, ps3 users however have been shafted in this case.

If you don't understand the difference between criticism or calling for boycotts, and threatening an actual class-action lawsuit, then you shouldn't be talking about lawsuits in the first place.

of course there are differences, but in the context of getting the thread 'locked', any action 'against' bethesda would be regarded as such.

so tell me how long have you been on your knees taking it up the rear from bethesda you must be there is no other reason for you to be on these forums unless your just here to piss people off if you have no problems why aint you playing the game

Wow thanks for the personal attack that really made my day better.

To respond to the half of your post that isn't blatantly ridiculous - I'm here to offer suggestions where I can to people who hit other weird bugs that I've seen, and to make an attempt at keeping things reasonable in some threads. Threatening to sue Bethesda for releasing a game that has some bugs is hardly reasonable and I'm merely pointing out the flaws in that idea.

And I'm not currently playing Skyrim because I find that my PS3 runs better when I don't play it ever waking hour. Maybe that's why my game is still running just fine, because I haven't played it 10+ hours every day since it was released.

FIRST of all, we have enough damn lawyers in the World suing is not something I would want to promote... Also after combing thru the ps3 S.H.A.S.I.S, it appears this was first discovered as early as the 12th!! Which means this game was released broken on the ps3, and no way I mean no way in hell you can tell me the game developers were not aware that they had a software problem, BUT still mass produced the flawed software for the ps3, and played it off..

After doing further research it seems this SAME problem exists in prior titles their fallout 3 game for the ps3 had or still has this problem on the ps3 and ALSO the newer fallout new vegas or whatever has the same problem.. Now lets look at this close, Fallout 3 came out in late 2008... It was released with the same problem in 2008 for the ps3 and it still has not been fixed... Now after the 2008 ps3 release of fallout 3 we have fallout new vegas that was released in 2010, with the same problem, and a nightmare of glitches..

Now I dunno what the hell, is going on @ Bethesda, but this frame rate lag, chaffing, or whatever you want to call it is complete [censored].. If people are not satisfied with their product, we should get our money back, the game is defected its not a hardware defect its a software defect, now fix this or man after the ad campaign is over and the truth is revealed the consumer is going to see the game is just a hyped up shinny peace of broken [censored]. give us our money back to those that want it back or fix it..

Its not game breaking for me at the moment, but I am pissed off that I have a defected game.. Considering the PS3 makes Bethesda, more money then the pc.. What concerns me thou, is that if this game breaker was in fallout 3 and in new vegas, and it still has not been addressed or fixed, it tells me they cannot fix it... Again releasing this game broken from the start, and knowing it, is what pisses me off, this is the best they can do for ps3...

Its not even Xmas, Now this game breaker is starting to get noticed also a week before black FRIDAY, examples of it are all over youtube, for those that want examples, and after watching these ps3 gameplay versions of lag, and comparing them to the xbox, its night and day..

At this juncture It might be more advantageous for people who want xmas presents good ps3 games to avoid Skyrim, for the ps3, tell your friends to as well, and get the new assasins creed, or if you looking for something that is just as rewarding and fun as a fully functional Skyrim, on PS3 get darksouls... I own Skyrim, and I am also dealing with this pause and unpausing of this game when its not suppose to be, the game literly freezing for like a second or 2 in the middle of gameplay..

Oh well..

This just might be the end of the road for Bethesda, with me, I went out and bought Hunted, prior to this game, and it was decent, but their were also allot of bugs in that game, as well, after this, spending 60 bucs on a shiny POS is hard to justify again...