We don't need it because it's not TES. If you want an RPG with relationships and six in them, go play Fable II or Dragon Age: Origins. This is The Elder Scrolls.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things i have heard today.

Who are you to decide what's TES and not? Really?

We are allowed to decide for ourself, what we would like to see in future TES games.

To me, the perfect Singleplayer RPG would probably be somekind of hybrid between Bethesda and BioWare style of RPG. If you feel BioWare does something better, there is no reason not to want it in TES.

Here's the deal. There needs to be more NPC interaction of all sorts. I want more options for talking, robbing, fighting, leading, following, ordering.

So, in theory, if this system was put in place, you could "romance" an NPC by giving them gifts, which is just good all around for disposition. You can talk with them often, making yourself more familiar. If someones disposition is very high, you can convince them to follow you. If you have them follow you to a church, you can pretend you got married. If they follow you home, you can pretend to live with each other. Etc.

There may even be dialog such as "I love you" but only because there's also "I hate you" "I like you" "I kill you" "I save you" etc etc etc

One of the problems with Dragon Age's system is that it all leads up to six, and that's it. All romantic relationships lead up to six in that game, and nothing else. There's no dating, no marriage, no honeymoon, you just act like you are attracted to each other and once you're attracted enough you have six when you're not out playing the game. That's what it boils down to. Sure, after you have six, you still have a relationship, but it doesn't go anywhere. You flirt and have six and flirt and have six and flirt and have six. That's it. That's the big flaw in that system.

If TES V has a romance system, it should not be like Dragon Age's in that having six should not be the pinnacle of your relationship. IF it has to be in TES V, I want it done right. I don't want Bioware romances where your relationship goes nowhere but having six, and I don't want Fable romances where the goal is to get married, live together and have children. Fable is far, far too involved for TES, and Dragon Age isn't involved enough.

The selected excerpts from previous posts pretty much sum up my personal opinions about how relationships should be included in TES. I
think that having more meaningful relationships, whether it be a friend, family, love interest, or spouse, would help to make me feel more
connected to the world that I'm supposed to be a part of. It could be the driving motivational factor behind WHY my
character is out there risking his ass day-in and day-out doing whatever it is he chooses to do. As far as the whole issue of six is
concerned, I personally don't see that it is necessary for there to be anything more than innuendo and/or implied six (scenes) in the game.
Though I'm no prude when it comes to six, I think that if a full-blown six scene were incorporated into the game it would come off as
gratuitous and cheesy. Besides, six =/= intimacy, and I think most of us would really like to see more intimate relationships develop
between our characters and the NPCs that he/she interacts with throughout the game before we ever saw pixelated uglies bumping.

The question is, when is it "done right" with regard to relationships and six in video games?

If I'm to be honest, six kinda IS the pinnacle of intimacy in any kind of romantic relationship. Aside from other acts of intimacy (that sometimes lead up to six), there is little else to a romantic relationship that isn't as mundane as any other relationship you might have. You might try to earn a living, make a home for yourselves, go on adventures together, and raise a family. But, in general, that's about as far as romantic relationships go. How far should we delve into these other areas before a romantic (or any other) relationship starts to feel 'right'?

Thank you for pointing out the glaring flaw in BW's romance system that's being touted as the best thing since sliced bread.

I don't think that there are enough in depth characters like there are in Bioware games.
I'm sure no one wants to romance an ordinary nord who can only tell you the latest rumors and if she has heard anything new lately.

Well, like I said, I would really rather not have any romance system at all. But okay, I'll pretend it's definitely going to be in. I want the relationship to mean something, but I don't want the player to be tied down. TES is a game about exploring and doing quests, not staying at home and raising a family. When was the last time you stayed in your home in Oblivion or Morrowind for more than 5 minutes in real time if you weren't looking through your containers for something, or organizing your things? TES isn't really about staying still, which is why I think having a family is a big no-no. You could have a wife though, but taking care of children isn't something you'd expect to find in a TES game.

Okay, so onto the romance. I want a girlfriend who will stay in her town while I'm out playing the game, living the life of any other NPC. Woman shouldn't be statues that stay inside all day waiting for me to come home. That's not realistic at all. So yeah, she lives her life, I live mine, but when I come and visit her at night I can give her a gift or talk to her in order to deepen our relationship. I should be able to make her a temporary companion and bring her into the game-world with me, and she has to have the ability to fight for herself, but also have the ability to die. What would be more devastating than seeing your love interest die and knowing you couldn't save her? Again, realism. I want the option to marry her after a while, and either bring her to my home, which can be any location in the game, or let her stay in her house. A cave on top of a mountian, for example. But she just wont stay there waiting for me to come home, she'll go out and collect nearby plants, or try to defeat nearby animals for food. And she has to be able to die doing it all. Realism, realism, realism. I see that I didn't mention six. I just don't see a need for six. Maybe once after the marriage, but I don't want the ability to have six whenever I want. This is supposed to be a person, not a blow-up doll. six just isn't all that important imo.

Some more points. There should be boyfriends for female players, and same six partners for people who like that sort of thing. You should be able to form a relationship with nearly anyone in a town, and everyone should have some sort of house or shack or bed on the ground for them to sleep in and for you to visit them at.

So there, those are my opinions on the matter, for now at least. But let me state again, I do not want a romance system in the game. But if there had to be, the above would be what I want.

Pertinent question. How many of you have ever played any of Emma's or Grumpy's companion mods?

You remember what it was like to walk to each NPC and hear the same thing, before the likes of the LGNPC?

When you experience how Emma scripts these companions, in that they not only interact with the character player, but are scripted to interact with many of her other works, THAT is the crux of what is really being talked about here. Not just the romance. Not just the illusion of intimacy. Social interaction, deep and at the heart of it all. If any of you have ever played and enjoyed any of her companion mods, you realize that she didn't make it easy for you at all. You can't bribe your companion/lover/wife/friend. They get offended. You have to WORK at it, just like the French Romance mod. There is no fast tracking and there is plenty of non-static dialogue to show how it can and is done. They can nag you for sure, and make your head spin with their quirks. But that is far better than the assumption that romantic companion = slave of labor and lust.

Why do you think there are so many mods that add simple, distinct, social interaction? There are mods that simply afford the player character to say "How are you?", and received several responses. There is a mod for apologizing. There is the wonderful mod called "Companion RPP", where you have literally bunches of question and answer things from "How do you feel?" to "What should we do now?" Taking the once sedate immersive experience of the game and widened it into I daresay once step closer to an amalgam of several different games. The original game was woefully devoid of this interactive aspect, and thanks to the modders, they continue to offer simple mods that add tons of social interaction. Perhaps one should stop focusing on just the Romance/six aspect, which of course exists in both the Romance Mod and MCA, and think of the dialogue, actions, interaction, that could be drafted leading up to it. None of the above mods would have been created if it were not wanted, and they still continue to be churned out, or tweaked.

Honestly, if you just wanted a game where you are just wandering the land speaking to no one and killing everyone who even says "Hello", you more than likely weren't looking for Morrowind. Not a game that not only expects you to interact with the myriad number of characters, but to make life, death, friend, and foe decisions that impact them in their Morrowind day. All of this done I remind you in a "standalone" game, not on some server with the multitude of real life personalities one deals with on an online game.

Lastly, as someone also noticed, what on Earth makes one feel that a companion, romantic or otherwise, must be relegated to watching your booty piled in a home? Since the first mods, there have been great multifunctional companions. Grumpy's Ingred Rems of the mod The Dome Home is one such character. She talks. She fights. You can levitate with her, and she can carry your stuff. She interacts with others of her creation. She has scripted notes on almost every town you visit, including a comical one for Suran where she asks you if the river is clear of slaughterfish, so she can take a bath. I once took her to Solstheim, and she outshot some of my bow shots. Hell, once you get to the ice and snow, she sneezes.

For an understanding how great the idea and application can be, try and experience them from those that have done it in mods. One of the great aspects of Emma's characters were taking them to extraneous though related mods and seeing new dialogue and interaction. This could be done the same with a romance mod. When my character had married Laurenna from the White Wolf mod, even Helseth himself in Mournhold had an interactive comment about "So? This is the wife? I heard she is from Solstheim is it?. That's what many are really talking about. You can have a companion, even a wife/lover/friend one that triggers more than just the obviously stated.

No.

It's when i read things like that, i become depressed about being a console gamer.

Good post, the best post so far. Very interesting to read.

The presence of nudity and six either makes a game childishly laughable... or adds to its creative character relationships, intensity of plot-lines, and realistic immersion. It can't do both. On the other hand, keeping grown-up relationships and the hint of six completely out of a game makes it flat and unrealistic. This is a hefty decision that must be carefully sculpted by the writers, so they're not catering to horny teenagers, but instead to mature players with relationships of their own.

* Where is the line drawn between sixual relationships being a grown-up thing, or being a childish thing?

The difference is classy, appreciable realism - rather than gratification. The development team would have to be very tasteful and artistic in its expression and writing in order to achieve positive reactions. The difference is a game famed for childish raunchiness, or loved for its new milestone in the progression of the art medium of computer gaming.

We are on the fringe of this change taking place in our entertainment: I would be honored if a good old TES game made the presence of relationships more story-focused, artistic and less sixy, and therefore became a milestone in the medium of entertainment. But I doubt that will happen, because the video game market is not populated by appreciators of art; the game would draw an entire slew of people who were only interested in laughing at childish vulgarity and virtual six romps.

sixual relationships belong in real life :hubbahubba: , not pretending in a solo computer game. It lowers the artistic standard of the game to a gratification level. To maintain the maturity, class and artistic distinction of the Elder Scrolls series, don't lower it to a sixual level. Keep that negativity out of it, and let the focus be on character relationships, dialogue, and plot complexity. Should light romance enhance these, then sure.

There is a major difference between six as an art form and six as gratification. Clever romantic storylines to back up plotlines and character realism (ala Dragon Age)? Of course - that's realistic writing. Scenes of X-rated sixual interaction? Immature to be present in a solo computer game, when there are a dozen half-humanoid species.

Think of Rogue Warrior and the presence of mass profanity by Mickey Rourke. Sure, if he'd seemed like a rough character with some grown-up things to say it would be classic - but they went over the top. The entire character was based around profanity - making him stale, square, laughable and boring all at the same time. six and nudity do the same thing - the line is very thin to walk when adding these factors to the appeal of the game. Make sure they're a classy, mature, sensible touch rather than a horny teen's sub-species fantasy world.

i dont really care if they do or dont it doesnt make or break a game for me...i rather see more effort in completing a simple little tes game for me to play than wait 6 years or more to fit in everything that anyone suggest to put in.....bahhh they cant even get sneak working properly in their games let a lone put something in they never done befor...

"Should Bethesda include a romance option in TES"?

Yes, they should run an on-line dating service for all of the socially deprived computer game junkies who play this series.....

Heh.
"Darling, I saw a mudcrab the other day."

[quote name='xXAntibodyXx' date='19 April 2010 - 12:12 PM' timestamp='1271671956' post='15862469']
I just don't see the point of adding it when the development resources can be devoted to much better things. I mean, if Bethesda reaches a point where they're sitting in their chairs saying "Well guys... we've created hundreds of unique quests, dozens of miles of terrain to explore, hundreds upon hundreds of varied dungeons, and squashed all of the bugs we can find... what now?," then yes, I would like to see a romance option. Though I'd rather them just release it then. But until the actual game itself is perfected, I don't see any reason to add it in.

I agree

So many other features need a brush-up. I'm not opposing romances, but more interactions with NPC's in general is needed before it makes sense, imo. In free-roaming games like the TES', a romance need som degree of complexity to work satisfying. That applies to all PC-NPC-interraction in games, but for a romance it's essential.

If they - for some odd reason - implement Viconia Devir in the next game, then I demand the option to date her no matter how dumb the romance is...

I'd much rather Bethesda spend development time and resources on other features.

Ideally yes. I probably wouldn't use such a system, but it's the choice that matters - choice indeed being central to the Elder Scrolls series.
That being said, however, there are numerous other things to be added/improved upon which I believe deserve much higher priority than a romance option.

no for all. i just would never use it. sounds incredibly boring

No for all. Bioware's Harlequin romance nonsense was about all I could stomach - I'd rather not see TES brought down to that level.

That is true. The PC's interaction with the NPCs would have to be deeper and more complex, in order for a romance to feel just somewhat satisfying and believeable. Believe me, the last thing i want to see is The Elder Scrolls V: The Sims.

I don't understand how anyone could possible expect a just somewhat honourable and realistic romance system, and at the same time expect the player to be able to start a relationship with any NPC in the game. In order for this to work, surely, the number of NPCs you could romance would have to be atleast somewhat reasonable.

I agree with thehunter. I have a couple opinions on the romance option.

1. There should be no weird six cutscenes. Bethesda is more or less notorious for there lackluster motion capture skills, and the idea of watching two awkwardly moving npcs going at it in their underwear is less than appealing to me. I'd rather have the screen fade to black or for bethesda to leave out six all together. There's a bunch of six mods floating around for tes 3 and 4 and I assume tes 5 will be no different. So for the gamers that want it, they can get it and for people like me it's easy to ignore.

2. Partnering benefits. You should be able to wed a couple different types of npcs, a house wife/husband, an adventurer, shopkeep, armorer and there should be realistic benefits. You'd obviously share a house, so the homebody could sort your ingredients, bake you food, sing you to sleep whatever, the adventurer could obviously watch your back while you dungeon dive or even save your life once or twice (die in a dungeon and you'd wake up outside, your significant other would be nursing you back to health), and the shopkeep or armorer would let you share in the weekly profits, repair your gear for free, give you unique items ect ect.

3. No romance upkeep. It's just stupid imo. I think the trappings of the romantic option tend to be the weird gifting systems, or the amount of attention paid to a partner in some sort of good boyfriend/girlfriend rubric you have to adhere to after the fact. To me simple is better. You go through a standard courting ritual and then let it be done with.

4. Expand on what's been done before. So you're the champion of skyrim, and you're married. Let's assume you've been a goodie goodie from the start and you've done some serious damage to the forces of darkness. You should have to protect your partner from harm. Hire him/her a security detail (and make sure they're well paid or else!), take out assassins before they can strike. Fortify your house with magical defenses, or permanetnly summoned daedra. Give him/her the best of equipment so they can defend themselves. It's ideas like that, that can really flesh out an ingame experience, and up the immersion factor.

I doubt it will happen, in fact more like an impossibility, mostly because every single NPC will need a new script (a detailed system on what they do) and that would be like a thousand or so new problems for the thousands of NPC's. Its basically as impossible as TES V taking place in a time where Nirn has the technology of going to space, cell phones, hovering cars, and so on. Those who use the TES construction set should understand more easier.

Actually, they do have that tech