Earlier this year Zenimax bought Arkane Studios, the makers of Dark Messiah; I didn't know this until I saw it today.

I'm guessing that Bethesda will not give up the oportunity to add some of the celebrated combat from Dark Messiah into Skyrim.

Even if they don't manage to bring much of the magic from Dark Messiah's combat, I'm sure the sharing of knowledge between companies will make for some changes being applied to the Skyrim combat system.

I hope they make good use of this partnership for this game.

DM used a heavily modified version of the Source engine. Valve was quite impressed with Arkane at the time. Not sure but I assume BGS can meet/exceed that without Arkane whom probably can't share the code anyway.

if they havent already figured out how to make combat great. then i would think they should collaborate with DM devs on how their combat works. because it is the best ive played in a fprgp. but also has room for improvement. my hope is that BGS has already created their own fluid intense combat system.

I've never played Dark Messiah and all I've heard about the combat is that it let you kick people, which was apparently awesome or ridiculous - I could never tell if people were being sarcastic or not. Perhaps you could explain it in more detail for those unfamiliar with it?


It's worth noting that Arkane joined Zenimax quite recently but this game has been in developement for over two years - chances are most of the fighting mechanics were already developed by the time they joined.

I dunno about code, but I'm thinking more of the creative talent and know-how behind the game. I'm sure if those guys can do it in Dark Messiah then they can do it in Skyrim with Bethesdas engine.

What's so good about Dark Messiah's combat?

Nothing imo. Backstabbing is done better in Thief series. Archery is done better in Mount & Blade. Kicking is done better in FEAR, and heck, even Daggerfall. At least the enemy don't fly 20 meters from your kick.

DM combat goes through the same blood-ballet moves over and over again, not realizing that tha player got bored before the first level was over.

So it aint much better than oblivion, if at all?

Yes, Dark Messiah and Mount & Blade!!!

I heard Severance: Blade of Darkness had good mechanics too, though I never played it.

I say with an emphatic YES, that I'd be happy if Bethesda drew ideas on the combat mechanics from those games. #1 for ideas being Warband, which from my experience is king of combat mechanics.

DM was pretty terrible, but the animations for the magic (not the spells, but what you do with your hands) was actually pretty cool.

Yeah, Dark Messiah looks more dated now, but it made a splash when it was released. You can see videos of it on Youtube if you want to see it.

The point is, Zenimax now own Arkane Studios and Dark Messiahs combat deffinately was a step up from Oblivions. So with them on their team, hopefully we'll see some input from them.

Of course, Dark Messiah was done some time ago and I'm sure they've moved on from that, so we might even see some big improvements over the DM system.

If they take anything from it, they aren't just gonna try and replicate like a copy paste job.

Kicking was fun and overpowered. If an enemy was anywhere near a ledge, or spikes, or something else that's dangerous (There's always something dangerous around) you could easily kick them into it for an instant kill. Not something I'd like in TES V.

The Deadly Reflex mod for Oblivion has a nice kick feature though.

I really enjoyed Severance's fighting system at the time, with lock on target and deep combo system (at least when I understood it), but it was aimed at one-on-one fighting, not mob fighting. Considering that you were more or less always outnumbered, it was tricky and some situations were hazardous when they could have been easier.

Personally I loved the DM combat system. Kicks off ledges or into spikes, slashes, shield bashes, decapitations, impalements, backstabs, knife throwing, staff combat, telekinesis allowing you to throw objects at foes, lightning magic allowing you electrocute multiple people if they were standing in water... it was awesome. That game inspired the creation of Deadly Reflex if memory serves.

Don't know what to expect from the Skyrim melee combat system but I sure hope they took some inspiration from DM and Warband.

Dark Messiah is really overrated to be honest. It just gets a lot of attention because of how interactive combat was and the destructible environment. It appealed mainly to the casual/mainstream crowd, but the game really had nothing else going for it. I personally would prefer Bethesda to do their own thing. Combat was a huge improvement in Oblivion, and I expect the same in Skyrim.

Indeed it didn't have an outstanding story or memorable characters. But combat was fun, way way way.... way way way more fun than Oblivion's block-slash-block-slash although Povuholo does make a valid point regarding kick. It wasn't perfectly balanced but it was fun!

From some clips I saw on youtube, the combat on DM looks awesome! But it does look incredibly easy, after 2-3 slashes your enemy is dead. That would be kinda boring in a TES game, right? Also the voice acting is HORRIBLE!

Dark Messiah was pretty terrible...
I completed it in one day and traded it for another game. :lmao:

Agreed. DM combat (and actually the whole game for me) was pretty damn fun. It was linear but I loved the style/design. Had some seriously creepy foes and environments. Goblins are seriously LOL funny in combat sometimes. Anyway... the game was designed around the combat system which allowed you to use the environment. You could use magic to freeze the ground and make enemies slip, set folks aflame with spilled oil, knock people down with chairs, buckets, etc. It was really entertaining. Kicking foes into traps tended to be overused by some players but I wouldn't fault the game for that.

Did you play Arx Fatalis? (by Arkane)

Dark Messiah's combat was frustrating, I hope Besthsoft doesnt take too much influence from it... Instead of kicking (cause I dont wanna see feet) punching or pushing back would be OK.

I guess, drastic changes in combat style scare me. Ideally Oblivion plus Deadly Reflex, and we have one badass combat system that is proven to work.

Dark Messiah was pretty good actually. I loved all the enemy, town, dungeon designs. It was an action game, no doubt. But it let me do lots of exploration. I used my rope arrow and reach every corner of their levels. I wasn't always rewarded but there were still things that could be found.

Problems with it,
-the skill tree.
-performance
-animations don't blend always

The combat was like Jedi Knight's. But better. Involving. With swords connecting. Enemy's dodging. AI with awareness and animations. Decent stealth play. Dismemberment(never gets old). Dual wielding. Throw-able weapons. It was fluid with really good animations. Overall animations galore for both fighting and magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4uP1YSTovs

Damn, I just looked at some of Dark Messiah's combat, its great! I hope Bethesda takes after them (in combat...only) It be awesome if beth also did spells like them (like how the appear on their hands, like bioshock)

It does look good, but playing it is frustrating to me at least like I said. Its from the mix of blocking being essential, to arrows being annoying, to trying to line your opponent up to get an environment kill (ie spikes), to your opponent blocking all your attacks.

Looks cool but I'd rather not. Im probably then minority here though

DM combat just got old kinda quick. I do hope they incorporate things like a shield bash to shove your enemy forward, just not make them fly 20 feet away. What I liked most about DM's combat was the environmental interaction. Being able to throw a bottle of oil at an enemy then light them on fire with a firebolt was pretty awesome. Enemies actually being hurt/dying when they fall into a spike pit would be nice, too. The actual combat engine in DM wasn't very good at all, it was the ability to kill enemies with the environment that made it fun, and something I really hope they do incorporate into Skyrim (just maybe a bit more subtle...you know, no laying spike pits everywhere and having bottles of oil lying around everywhere to be thrown).