This might be the first truly disheartening thing I've discovered about Skyrim's gameplay.

So... it's just occurred to me that skill levels don't appear to be improving anything. I can't say for sure if weapon damage or magicka costs are improving as the corresponding skill ranks improve.

Perks improve them for sure, but ranks don't appear to. Again, I can't say for sure, but it doesn't seem that way. With no perks invested, destruction spells appear to me to cost the same at rank 23 as they did at rank 15. With no perks invested, lockpicking doesn't seem to have gotten any easier with rank increases.

Like I said, this just occurred to me - it's not something I've been paying attention to until now - so I can't say for sure. Can anyone chime in on what, exactly, skill levels do for your character (aside from qualifying them for perks)?

Well, except you can't get the better perks until your skills are up, so ... yeah you need skills ... for perks!

Well maybe this little song answers your question:

*takes up guitar*

"Nothingggggg"

*puts down guitar*

wait so the attack value from swinging a sword at skill level 2 is the same as at skill level 100????? that cannot be true....

This is what I'm saying, yes. Unless you've taken the perks to improve your damage, the 99 skill levels you've gained since rank 1 aren't doing anything for you.

Again - this is essentially speculation on my part. I only just started paying attention to this, but it really seems to me that - for example - spell costs are the same at mid-rank as they were at low-rank. Also, I haven't noticed any improved damage or ease of lockpicking, with the raising of skill levels.

This is the first truly disappointing thing I've discovered so far, and I really hope I'm wrong. For skill ranks to do nothing except qualify you for perks you may not ever take is just... a little beyond disappointing. It's too early for me to say for sure whether this is how it works or not... but it kinda seems that way.

: (

if this is true then yikes......looks like im going to have to throw some perk points in things that I wasnt hoping for.....damn illusion.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1252655-skill-values-dont-matter/

This is the same information I got from someone else. Unless you are F_Wolf on GameFAQs, in which case I'm just getting this information from the same person.

How do you know this?? The game hasn`t been released yet, so you can`t say one way or the other can you?? Bethesda wouldn`t create a system that doesn`t work would they?? Obviously the new system has been tested thoroughly before now, so therefore if it didn`t work then they would have done something about it by now don`t you think??

@ Iain: First of all, I won't be saying (and have not said) how I know or came to believe any of what I am saying. For all you know, my experiences are the same as anyone's. For all you know, I'm speculating based on trailers and demos. For all you know, I'm a reviewer, or I played at E3 - or I have a buddy that did. I didn't say I'm playing the game, and I didn't say I'm not. All you need to know is that I'm a reasonably smart guy, and I wouldn't be posting this if I didn't feel that my own experiences are reliable. Also, if you're wondering, I'm going to be in line to pick up a physical copy of the game for full retail price on release day. At midnight. And also a strategy guide. The official Bethesda one.

Okay? Okay.

Second of all, I'm not saying the system doesn't work. I'm saying that it seems like the skill rank system DOES work - as designed - in a way that only uses skill level as a measure for perk prerequisites. Which is terribly disappointing, if correct.

@ SushiSquid: I'm not registered on the GameFAQs forums, no.

Also, my apologies to everyone for posting this thread right after SushiSquid's thread was posted - I didn't see it, I swear. : /

I don't believe this. It doesn't make sense whatsoever. Maybe you just didn't notice the difference. And besides: spells get stronger as you level up, the magicka cost stays the same. I think.

Fairly certain this isn't the case. Heard stuff that indicates spells do not scale with us, and that there are multiple levels of the same spell effect (fire damage spray for example). This seems to suggest that spells will be like they were in Morrowind/Oblivion.

Of course skills do something.

Higher spell school skill = Less cost and greater effect
Higher weapon skill = More damage
Higher armor skill = More armor rating
Higher alchemy skill = More potent creations

u use skills such as a 1 handed weapon
u earn points against that skill
then u level up
then u choose a perk
your skill points determine what perks u can take

u can chose any perks u can afford but focusing on perks that effect the skills u use
this is the way this system works

there arent many or any perks that arent related to the particular skill

the perks are focused on play styles such as rogue, warrior mage

from what ive seen they havent really removed anything theyve just made it in a different way
which to me seems more rewarding and natural

Treborius, it is entirely possible that the degree to which skills help is small, and gradual - and thus, hard to notice. I am ALMOST completely sure that the listed damage values of weapons has not improved with skill level, in my experiences thus far... but it could be that it takes quite a lot of ranks before listed damage improves... or it could be that the listed damage value never changes even if the actual damage value does. Similarly, no magicka cost is listed for spells, that I can tell; so maybe the cost is going down at a rate that I just haven't noticed, yet.

I hope very much that you are correct. From now on I'll be paying close attention to this as I experience the game...

This appears to be untrue.

Damage values, armor values, and magicka costs may or may not only gradually improve, or may improve invisibly - with no indication from the listed item/spell values; but your assumption about alchemy scaling with skill level appears to be untrue. I haven't experienced the alchemy system more than once, myself, but I've just read on the GameFAQ forums that SushiSquid pointed me toward that at least one person has experienced exactly the opposite of this. Potion strengths which are the same, regardless of skill level.

1)Have you tried Alchemy? Other guy (other forums) said that he trained alchemy to near 70 but the potions were identical to those, which he made on low levels and that the only way to increase their strength was through perks?
2) You don't see spell costs? Strange because on all official footage the cost was shown.

u get better at skills by investing in perks not by the number value of your skill

so u use a skill get more points spend those points on that skills perksu get better
the numbers dont effect your skill with the weapon

It could also be that the listed damage of weapons is not the same as the damage which you inflict on enemies, like the listed damage, is just that weapons specific damage, when it is not effected by any of your skills.

That would be extremely stupid if it's true. Do you have some proof of this (i.e. you're playing the game already) or are you just guessing?

Perks have a tremendous effect on your abilities, letting you character specialize and become powerful. They should not, however, be the only factor into how you perform. If you use a skill a lot, you should get good at that skill regardless of your perks. Perks are too limited for them to be the only factor.

The problem being that it is a complete deviation from everything that has come before it, including FO3. We knew that power was being taken away from the skills and placed into perks, but had no idea that Bethesda was planning on taking everything away from the skills and putting them into perk form.

I think he is missing something how can speculate something like that then posted if your not sure?????? Also if you did not get your skill points all the way to 100 how would u knw??? Maybe it goes up depending on your LVL or title of the skill as novice adept expert then master hard to believe you

That would make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!

It would mean we can never get better at skills we dont perk?? WTF.

If its true...

Bethesda would lose one sale from me!

Kind of throws his 'findings' into question in my opinion... How does he know that magicka costs for spell have not been decreasing if he had no idea where the spell costs were even displayed?

to answer that would be against the rules but lets say ive been watching over 4 hours of skyrim 2day

not playing it

edit and on that note im going back to watch more

You guys it's a spam come on people are spreading rubies from a troll on the other forums a person is saying the same exact crap come on you guys ate smart then this