Skyrim 200 years after Oblivion ? Seriously ? : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:40 am

Bravil=Argonia

Black Marsh*

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:22 pm

Wars have probably destroyed much of the architecture, as well as natural disasters (Winterhold is a perfect example of that).

But was it a natural disaster?
I beg to differ.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:53 am

I predict that within a very short time after the CK is released that there will be Skyrim inhabitants that will be living in beautiful, modern, rich, and comfortable homes.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:16 pm

If Skyrim is set 200 years after Oblivion why does the architect ie buildings look so much more modern in Oblivion compared to Skyrim, Skyrim looks to be 200 years before Oblivion not 200 years later with its grassy looking thatched roofs on houses, just a thought ?

Escape 21st century misaet. Think of 1100 versus 1300

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:44 am

To put it very simply, the world of Nirn is not earth, and has very different properties to it - more so a prevalent aspect has happened on this planet which separate it greatly from Earth - and that would be "magic".

Let's say that you have two planets, Planet A and Planet B, and lets say that also magic is real. On Planet A the people of this world discover magic, and begin to invest into it heavily. Further, Planet B never discovers the secrets of magic, to them its just some fantasy, or never comes into their mind at all.

Obviously these two worlds are going to develop EXTREMELY differently. While Planet A discovers magic, that's ALL they invest into. They constantly look into improving their spells, because it is the source of their power, it is what separates from them man and beast. Technology its self never rises up beyond huts and castles, because there is no interest in going beyond that. Planet B how ever, because they never discover magic has to find a new way to rise up, and so they begin to invest into technology. Just like Planet A did with magic, Planet B focuses SOLELY on improving its technology, and the line of it ever gaining access or looking into some how tapping into the source of magic never comes into fruition.

In the case of Nirn, we see one possible aspect of a "technologically" superior race, and this was the Dwemer. They serve (I believe) as a cautionary tale and a reasoning why the world of Nirn still appears to be in the dark ages. The Dwemer not only used mechanics and technology to advance their needs, but they incorporated into magic. In this fantasy aspect, it would appear the two can not be combined, and when such happens ill things happen - in their case the complete extermination of the entire race.

So it would be very natural for the events of Skyrim to take place 200 years after Oblivion, and nothing seemingly has changed from the perspective of architecture and technology, but it can certainly be believed that their magic has improved vastly.

If your interested at all, there is an excellent short story based around a similar concept called "The Road Not Taken" by Harry Turtledove

http://pastebin.com/aJQfubrK

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:07 am

Yeah, 200 years is hardly a long time when you consider the game is like the bronze age on earth. the bronze age was a very long time.

i wouldnt say that the game is based on the bronze age as that would mean no iron steel etc.

personally with the technology that is available in game by that i mean material smithing TES is somewhat more advanced that our world. the truth though is that because magic plays a big role in the TES universe there is little need for creating techology and if you couple that with the noble rule of tamriel it. it would be very similar to how our world would be if there wasnt changes to how people worked and lived. ofcourse subtract magic when comparing our world.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:19 am

From what I've read by other forum posters over the last few weeks, Nordic culture to a large extent forbids the rebuilding of destroyed structures for some reason.

If thats true it would explain the crumbling "guard towers" in whiterun.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:58 pm

If you've read the lore on the intervening years, you'd know several things.
1) War (and presumably famine and poverty) have been common since the end of the Septim line. The Empire is literally falling apart.
2) Skyrim is not as wealthy as Cyrodiil, especially in these difficult times.
3) Nordic culture and architecture is different.

Pretty concise breakdown there.

I think years of warfare and instability are the big factors here. The Empire is so broke they let the Forsworn trample all over the Reach while they fought the Dominion.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:19 pm

Because it is a different place. Doing research of our own history will tell you that not all areas of humanity progressed at the same rate. You will also learn that progression is not steady. There are hiccups along the way, steps made, steps retreated.

Take the early medieval period following the fall of Rome. Much of Europe existed in a very dark age with little to know growth. You can actually call this period in those locations a retraction where an earlier, more advanced way of life was lost. This happened while other portions of Europe lived on in much the same fashion as they did before Rome fell. This is no more apparent than in the architectures of each.

This post is very true even in today's society. There are some places in the world right now in 2012. That are almost no more advanced then the stone age. Just look at alot of the tribes in South America, Africa, and other countries. It isn't a bad thing. Just different cultures do things differently.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:17 pm

Bronze age? Nah. Later than that. All the technological development is more like medieval Europe, for the most part. The heavy use of iron and steel place it well beyond Bronze Age technology.

We are probably in the 10th millenium :wink:

Cause we definitely passed the industrial age with the dwemers and their magic _steam_ driven robots :wink:

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:52 am

Its the small amount of books that have been written in 200 years that get me. Pretty much the same titles as in OB, bar a few new ones

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:09 am

I don't really get the point of why the 200 year leap. Are people just that slow in Tamriel, that even the slightest changes take centuries? If you look at our world, it changes its form radically about one a century, in times even once every 50 years. IMO it would have been better if Skyrim was set, say, 25-50 years after Oblivion. You could still have Empire breaking up (because of the gate crisis), have the Thalmor go around bossing people, have Stormcloak rebellion and have pretty much everything - and perhaps most importantly some important Oblivion characters in cameo roles!

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:36 am

I think they did a great job showing the economic, agricultural, and cultural differences extremely well. Try going from Seattle to most anywhere in Alaska. You will see these difference in the modern day America.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:32 am

I don't really get the point of why the 200 year leap. Are people just that slow in Tamriel, that even the slightest changes take centuries? If you look at our world, it changes its form radically about one a century, in times even once every 50 years. IMO it would have been better if Skyrim was set, say, 25-50 years after Oblivion. You could still have Empire breaking up (because of the gate crisis), have the Thalmor go around bossing people, have Stormcloak rebellion and have pretty much everything - and perhaps most importantly some important Oblivion characters in cameo roles!

Imagine the world without steam-power that works off a small boiler.
Imagine if explosives simply cannot reliably drive heavy objects through a narrow pipe in Tamriel.
Imagine if wars and gods constantly break down.
Imagine that metals simply cannot be made into *tiny* cogwheels to drive mechanical computers, and that these things take EXTREME AMOUNTS OF POWER to run; Like the force of a constant lava-flow that let the Dwemer power their steam-machines with the help of magic.

But that does not excuse the lack of katanas, crossbows and spears.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:18 am

Imagine the world without steam-power that works off a small boiler.
Imagine if explosives simply cannot reliably drive heavy objects through a narrow pipe in Tamriel.
Imagine if wars and gods constantly break down.
Imagine that metals simply cannot be made into *tiny* cogwheels to drive mechanical computers, and that these things take EXTREME AMOUNTS OF POWER to run; Like the force of a constant lava-flow that let the Dwemer power their steam-machines with the help of magic.

But that does not excuse the lack of katanas, crossbows and spears.

Yes, in fantasy setting like this technological advance is nonexistent but does that not even further emphasize the lack of point in such leaps in timeframe?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:31 am

Its the small amount of books that have been written in 200 years that get me. Pretty much the same titles as in OB, bar a few new ones

We still have books today that were written hundreds or even thousands of years ago, nothing wrong with that. Then you have the printing, a much more painful process than today's, shipping was difficult since skyrim is difficult to get to compared to other regions, etc etc

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:25 am

if we want to build a piramid these days we have to use fancy equipment because if we don't we just are not able to built it. I think that maybe in the days of oblivion they were maybe a little better evolved.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:21 pm

I hear that in the last 50 years the Thalmor nuclear program has really made progress. Got to wipe them out before it's too late.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:24 am

Its the small amount of books that have been written in 200 years that get me. Pretty much the same titles as in OB, bar a few new ones

More than likely, what may attribute to the lack of more literature (or a reasonable way to explain it) would be mass literacy. I would include printing press but Im not sure in a world of magic, one would be needed. Also, magic would actually be a hinderance as it can do things that we needed machines to accomplish.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:46 am

One thing that is often overlooked in fantasy worlds is that any world where magic is common will usually have no "real" science and thus will progress at a snail's pace. The Dwemer for example was the most advanced race ever and yet even their contraptions functioned with some low key use of magic. It seems to be an unspoken rule that you can not have high magic and high science together although there are exceptions to this as well.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:04 am

If Skyrim is set 200 years after Oblivion why does the architect ie buildings look so much more modern in Oblivion compared to Skyrim, Skyrim looks to be 200 years before Oblivion not 200 years later with its grassy looking thatched roofs on houses, just a thought ?

Why have buildings not turned into what you personally expected? Why haven't deer eveolved into flying hovercars?

Dude, seriously? It's an f'ing GAME. Play it or don't.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:17 am

Region is the biggest explanation. Not every part of the world is as developed as other parts. For example, even at the height of the Roman Empire, some provinces like Gaul and Frisiana were under-developed.

Another explanation is that you could say the Empire is in decline. Very much like the Roman Empire in the dark ages. The Roman castles were all breaking down but were still used. Skyrim has this as well. There are castles everywhere but they all look broken down.

In human history we also see civilizations rise and fall. Right now we are at a peak but it could be that in 100 years things will look worse than they do now.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:17 am

I don't really get the point of why the 200 year leap. Are people just that slow in Tamriel, that even the slightest changes take centuries? If you look at our world, it changes its form radically about one a century, in times even once every 50 years. IMO it would have been better if Skyrim was set, say, 25-50 years after Oblivion. You could still have Empire breaking up (because of the gate crisis), have the Thalmor go around bossing people, have Stormcloak rebellion and have pretty much everything - and perhaps most importantly some important Oblivion characters in cameo roles!

It's not our world. It's a videogame world. Skyrim is not subtitled "Bethesda Fantasy World Evolution: TESV". So you don't 'get' the leap. Oh well, I guess that's not good news for you. A lot of players don't seem to 'get' that game developers want to do something new and different instead of making the same thing over and over. So to have a new slate but still have the same type of content, they moved the timeline 200 years ahead. The game is not going to be All Things to All People. You don't 'get' the reasoning. OK, fine. You don't get it.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:47 pm

Its the small amount of books that have been written in 200 years that get me. Pretty much the same titles as in OB, bar a few new ones

The new ones are all Ruined and Burned :cool:

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:31 am

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MedievalStasis

Of particular relevance is this paragraph:

Some object to the idea that advanced technology is inevitable at a certain point. The history of cultures besides Western Europe shows that it is not. Greece and Rome both seemed to be at the point of being able to move into the technology of the Industrial Revolution but they never did. There are many other examples, like China, where cultures could have made the leap but never did, for various reasons (largely because of a culture that created the Confucian philosophical belief that http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StatusQuoIsGod). Usually, the reason was social (why scramble to invent labor-saving machinery when slaves are cheap?) or technical (you can't build steam engines if you haven't figured out how to make precision-machined metal parts, even if your civilization is otherwise very advanced).