The quest 'Bound Until Death' begs to differ, impossible to do sneakily.

I find that the wild animal AI is less insane in Skyrim. In Oblivion, the deer pretty much were way too easy to scare off. Maybe it was just the PS3 version, but still an annoyance.

You can use mods to add more people. Travelers of Skyrim, Adventurers and Travelers, and mods that expand the cities. I haven't played a thief or assassin yet though.

Sure you could steal enough crap to reach that 1000 gold, but you would need to go in several homes. In Skyrim you can clear 1000 in most homes easily.

I've done that quest with out being caught.

Wait. You mean Oblivion's Thieves' Guild meant the Waterfront when they said no stealing from poor people? I never knew... I just avoided stealing from shabby looking homes because I thought they meant all poor people.

But did it involve quick travelling?

That's odd, I've done it without being caught ...

I've done it sneakily.

All I did was hide behind the gargoyle. Never got caught.

This is a big one, especially since they did it right in Oblivion. And it's not the only thing they did right in Oblivion but not in Skyrim.

I mean't because most things in there were worth like 1 gold coin but also I think they were saying don't steal from poor people who were friends with the guild and Gray Fox.

I sorta mean't without causing a commotion and having to use unusual methods so the game doesn't acknowledge you and give you a bounty.

I killed her with a bow and didn't get caught.

The point of the quest IS to cause a commotion anyway.

Man, I loved the Independent Thievery quests! Really gave you a reason to go around stealing random junk. I was really disappointed when I saw there were no quests like that in Skyrim. Yeah, I know, there are those radiant quests, but it's just not the same.

All of the thieving part of the guild is done in the radiant quests that Delvin and Vex give you.

I pushed the gargoyle, and ran out through the secret exit. No fast travel - I think I did, but not until I was a fair way away from Solitude/the docks. There was a commotion, but not aimed at me - people were just panicking because I killed the bride. I was able to chat with the guests at the wedding afterwards ...

That's the sort of way Gogron gro-Bolmog did things, this way there's no point to bonuses as there's no need to be sneaky.

Odd...I've played three characters that have done all or part of both the TG and DB questlines, and I've used stealth quite extensively on all of them. Yeah, there are some parts where straight-up combat is required, but to say there is "no actual sneaking" is absurd.

And yes, I've done "Bound Until Death" without getting caught. It took a couple of reloads, but I got a clear shot from the walkway overlooking the courtyard and got away clean.


So stealing random stuff from people is different that stealing stuff from random people?

Whaat? Thieves Guild has the best missions in the game for me and the DB is very cool to play as an vampire assassin (but it still doesn't beat Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood)

Still thinks Thieves Guild is the best choice for roleplaying. I tought Companions have the worst quests and 'things to do' in Skyrim, followed very closely by the Mages Guild

The point of killing her is to get a special person to come to Skyrim, hence the need to cause a spectacle.

I think he was coming anyway.

I think its too easy to avoid the crime system, the seperate holds and faction disconnects makes very rarely have to confront guards or any consequences of crime I commit even if I am caught.
lore/roleplay wise the brotherhood feels abit on the "low end" but I guess that fits their situation for that time and place, the thieves guild tho, I honestly liked more than oblivion, feels nice to boost a near-dead guild back to glory and see the flagon lively up.
as for content, with both sidequest contracts of multiple kinds both during and after you finished the quest lines are pretty awesome with the randomizations and stuff, theres loads to steal, cond, trick, murder etc.
from combat point of view, a dagger assassin/sniping ranger hybrid(sneak-onehanded-archery as main and smithing-lightarmor as secondary) was the second coolest character buildup I ever played
the only thing I found that needed serious work is that sniping from range-moving at skill 50+ sneak made modst npcs unable to detect me no matter how much punishment I was raining down on them, I think the engine needs to be tweaked so that even the npcs with the lowest stealth detection after a certain amount of hits will swoop down on you and auto-detect no matter what, and only with invisibility or "vanish" 100 sneak talent could you lose them.

I feel with ya, bro.
I want to roll a thief in Oblivion right now and start plotting. ))

Yes, you've a similar system like that in oblivion, Tes game.