Hello,

In "The Flooded District", I got to the part where Granny Rags tries to kill Slackjaw. So, I told her I wouldn't help her, pickpocketed the key, freed Slackjaw, put her cameo in the furnace, burned it, but didn't kill or knock out Granny. I ran around, and shortly Slackjaw killed Granny, not me. I am doing a Ghost Clean Hands playthrough, and I know this fight is very bugged for these achievements, so I ask:

1. Will Slackjaw killing her invalidate Clean Hands?
2. Will the encounter invalidate Ghost?
3. Devs, do you plan to fix this encounter in a patch?

I know both achievements can be achieved if the key is pickpocketed without talking to Granny and leaving, but I really would not like to see Slackjaw die. Devs, I would appreciate a response from you. I would not like to keep playing until I have a definite answer, because I would not like to have to replay the final missions.

Thank You!

According to Bethesda support, sleep darting or choking Granny will count as a kill, but you seemed to already know that. What's not clear is that it's a HIDDEN kill, meaning you will still see the No Kill validation at mission debriefing.

I don't really know so far for point 1. I pickpocketed Granny and freed Slackjaw before leaving in a hurry, and it seemed to count one kill.

Point 2, initally I just pickpocketted Granny and run away, and it invalidated my Ghost stat for the mission. I had a save just before entering the room and after many tries and tests, I was able to confirm that Ghost was entirely dependant on that part alone in my playthrough. I read that some people reported that quickly hiding away before she turned back would still net the Ghost achievement. Like hding under the stairs. Didn't try that yet. I guess the goal is to stay out of sight of her. Maybe pickpocketing her, darting her immediately could buy a bit of time and still work...

Point 3, I'm no dev, but I sure hope putting Granny to sleep won't count as a kill somedays...

So is there no way to get through that and still get both Clean Hands and Ghost (and preferably help Slackjaw)?

Some people reported getting the Clean Hands achievement, so there must definitely be a way. It's very unclear, though. Mostof the time, they reported doing exactly the same thing as one who would not have got the achievement.

I was just reading about the fact that you have to do the Ghost / no kill on first attempt, meaning NOT pushing 'restart mission' at the debrief screen, but instead reloading a save you'd have dropped just at the beginning of the level.
Also, I noted that bone charms are resetted and re-randomized when you restart the mission, even if you reload a save from your previous attempt ( attempt 1, you get Strong Arms. You hit restart level at the debrief screen and reload, you will have, say, Water of Life. But if you hit "next mission" and reload, you will still get Strong Arms. )

What I suspect is that there is an issue with the way the stats are recorded through a campaign, and that hitting "restart mission" does the same job than manually selecting a mission from the title screen. It doesn't count toward the achievements.

I will dash through the game again, knowing our way around is a huuuuge gain of time ( final mission took me no more than 10 minutes with no choke/dart/detection by using the sewer exit on the far north of the map, which basically leads straight to the elevator ). Only this time I will make sure the two weepers below the bar didn't die, and will not ever use restart mission. I will still land a save before Granny/slackjaw.

So basically I can't say anything for sure and I'm sorry, but I feel nobody can actually be sure of what's going on with this achievement.

If you only do the slackjaw mission for the Pendleton twins, and never speak to granny rags. The sewer gate is open, and you never have to do that.

Nice to note. It's still a bit sad that you'd have to refrain from fully exploiting the game's contents in the earlier parts, to avoid something that is quite obvisouly a bug from preventing you to get a gameplay achievement in the later parts...

Damn, then that would mean going back to the first mission.

its fairly simple. I did both their missions and in flooded district I helped granny by "cooking" slackjaw for her achievement and for my cannon run reloaded denied helping both went bit far from granny (if you kill/dart granny before burning her cameo she turns into a swarm of rats and respawns elsewhere as she is immortal till you burn) then darted her, ran and burned the cameo
granny cries in agony then respawns as mortal then again sleep dart here where she respawned which was on the stairs. So she is uncounsious, slackjaw is freed and doesn't kill her, and woola! you get all achievements

Granny didnt ruin my clean hands, she did however ruin my ghost due to entering combat or something and mysteriously "seeing" me even if I was stealthed far away from her after running off with stop time.

The whole granny + slackjaw is optional OR I found a bug. Because I never went there on my first playthrough. I managed to get through the terrain and advance without going there at all.

But doesn't it count as a kill (and being seen) if you knock her out/fight her?
Yes, but that would involve replaying the game from the first mission.

Well, fact is, that actually doesn't work - which mean there is a bug. And Bethesda support even acknowledge that : darting or choking Granny count as a kill. It's non-logical, and its still will tell you at debrief you kill nobody in the mission, but the bug make it a "hidden" kill couting for the campaign...
Now maybe the kill was coming from somewhere else, but the "hidden kill" theory seems to be valid, as even with all missions summaries showing "no kill / no detection" I only got Shadow in the end.