Smaller HD texture file

Post » Thu May 24, 2012 2:53 am

I want to make a few more experiments, then I'll post a few screenshots for comparison. If the general consensus is that the difference is barely noticeable at a 1366x768 resolution (the resolution of my laptop), I'll give up and save myself a lot of time and hard work better spent elsewhere.
OK :biggrin:
Consider that right now (I've sent you a PM about this) I'm just resizing the textures BUT applying the original DXT, so if you have any advices (especially if I can use DXT1 in place of DXT3/5 in certain textures) I'll be more than happy, I would save a lot more vram (DXT 3/5 uses almost double space than DXT 1 :yuck:)
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John Moore
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 10:22 pm

In Skyrim, normal maps need alpha channels. The normal map's alpha channel is what defines specularity.
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Steve Fallon
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 6:04 pm

In Skyrim, normal maps need alpha channels. The normal map's alpha channel is what defines specularity.
So diffuse maps can all be saved as DXT1? BTW I've encountered in HD dlc some normal maps (suffix _n) saved as DXT1... do you know why?
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Skrapp Stephens
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 7:50 pm

I made a few experiments with the HD textures files

For some reason Betehsda developers use DTX3 everywhere. This leads to artifacts especially visible when alpha channels and normal maps come into play.

Speaking about alpha channels, it seems Bethesda employed them even when not needed (i.e. the map is completely white) and in normal/specular maps (I've tried deleting them and I couldn't notice a difference, for example in the fur of animals, it's the diffuse alpha channel that dictates transparencies and mask effects).

Thus I've decided to proceed this way and see the end result in the game:
Diffuse map:
-unless in the vanilla game pixellation effects are noticeable, take the 'HD' version and resample it by 1/2 its size.
-Save it to DXT5 with interpolated alpha (no artifacts) redoing all the mipmaps with a high quality algorithm.
-The end result is a file as big as the vanilla texture but with a somewhat higher quality.

Normal map
-keep the 2X version but discard alpha
-Save it to DXT1 redoing all the mipmaps with a high quality algorithm
-Noticeable increase in quality and detail compared to vanilla texture

Specular map
-keep the 2x version but discard alpha
-Save it to DXT1 redoing all the mipmaps with a high quality algorithm

Predicted savings in space: 1/4th of the size for diffuse, 1/2 of the size for normal and specular.

=WIN :biggrin:

Unless I'm mistaken -- Skyrim still uses the normal map alpha channel for the Specular map -- what you are thinking are specular maps are environment maps not specular -- so deleting teh normal maps alpha channel is going to mess things up -- not sure if a missing alpha would default to pure white which would make all objects very reflective or all balck which would make them not reflect light at all --- If you want to test this remove the alpha channel from any armor texture and use it in game and the armor will either be very reflective or will disappear completely (since the in game lighting will not reflect)
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Emily Graham
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 2:45 am

So diffuse maps can all be saved as DXT1? BTW I've encountered in HD dlc some normal maps (suffix _n) saved as DXT1... do you know why?
Not all diffuse maps can be saved as DXT1. There are a lot of diffuse maps that contain transparencies, which work best saved as DXT5 and will look terrible saved as DXT1.

Which vanilla normal maps were saved as DXT1?

Unless I'm mistaken -- Skyrim still uses the normal map alpha channel for the Specular map -- what you are thinking are specular maps are environment maps not specular -- so deleting teh normal maps alpha channel is going to mess things up -- not sure if a missing alpha would default to pure white which would make all objects very reflective or all balck which would make them not reflect light at all --- If you want to test this remove the alpha channel from any armor texture and use it in game and the armor will either be very reflective or will disappear completely (since the in game lighting will not reflect)
Depends on your paint program I think. But defaulting to pure white or pure black are both very bad results.
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Juan Suarez
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 5:53 am

Which vanilla normal maps were saved as DXT1?
For example barkeepfemaleoutfit_n in the first HD BSA @ textures\clothes\barkeeper\f

http://imgur.com/GccP6
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john page
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 am

For example barkeepfemaleoutfit_n in the first HD BSA @ textures\clothes\barkeeper\f

http://imgur.com/GccP6
Specularity is controlled by the mesh that texture is used on. Which means on that particular trishape the specular data is the same throughout. It could be improved using an alpha channel.
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Mandi Norton
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 10:42 pm

I've finished optimizing the package HDtextures01. I don't think I'll do the same to HDtextures02 which contains textures for architecture and landscape. maybe just a 'quick and dirty' version of it which will require far less work.

Higher resolution normals have less impact in Skyrim than changing the diffuse layer to higher resolution maps. So I basically removed all the normals.

By converting all the textures from DXT3 to DXT1 (when the alpha layer was nothing but black and white) I've saved nearly 400MB. Clothes, armors, (most) animal skins still use 2K textures. Weapons were downsampled to 1K. Small piece of garments (boots, hoods and gloves) were kept vanilla sized although using 1k for gloves will benefit those who use 1st person view.

All the mipmaps have been redone from scratch using the highest quality algorithm possible for resampling.

Package size is not 450MB versus 2GB of the original. I'm pleased about the result because (as far as clothing, weapons, armors, etc...) the end results is very close to the package distributed by Bethesda but it runs far smoother on my laptop.

I'll have it uploaded in 8-12 hrs. I tried the whole weekend but the Nexus servers kept bumping me off.
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GEo LIme
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:09 am

File is up on the Nexus, if anybody wants to give a try and has a fast connection (450MB).

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=10239

So far, only HDtextures01.bsa has benn "converted". I don't think I'll do the same with the second file because there are better MODs around fixing the worst textures in some cities (Windhelm being the worst) and Bethesda textures, unfortunately, do very little .
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Jeremy Kenney
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 2:33 am

Updated version is now available. Fixed some problems with textures in the wrong directory inside the .bsa and a few visual glitches due to "excessive" optimizations regarding the alpha channel.
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Kevin Jay
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 9:12 pm

Isn't this the same thing?

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9080

Just wondering!
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Monika
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 6:02 pm

Yeah... it's already been done. Unless this one is even smaller...
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John N
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 7:07 am

I am interested in this.
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vicki kitterman
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:24 am

There are 2-3 packages like mine each with a different approach. In my case, I tried to preserve 2K resolution textures whenever possible by dropping normal maps entirely (so meshes will sue the vanilla ones instead) and converting several DXT3 textures (4:1 compression) to DXT1 or DXT1a (6:1-8:1 compression) when the alpha channel wasn't needed or was only a black and white mask.

Weapons (which are mostly 2K in the official package) were reduced to 1K (still 2X than the original) because since this package is aimed at old graphic cards, people who don't play at fullHD resolution won't notice a big difference. Likewise, a few other textures applied to small meshes were re-dimensioned or left out since they hardly contributed to a noticeable increase in quality.

Working on this package, I noticed how artists' work at Bethesda is a bit... hectic. There are three or four naming conventions adopted for the files; some textures are dumped all in the same directory, sometimes a female/male directory is used for variant. Shield are sometimes classified as weapons, sometimes as armor. Coupled with the fact that several textures that could have been compressed to DXT1a were DXT3 instead, there was a lot of room for optimization. There are even a few (mostly unused) duplicates.

At any rate, this package works very well on my laptop with an ATi 4650 in it. I play at 1360x768, all detail set to the max (except shadows) and with 2x antialiasing too.

This package only contains textures from the first of the two files Bethesda distributed, thus only clothing weapons and armors. The second package contains textures used by the game world but, again, I feel Bethesda made a bit of a rushed job and this package doesn't dramatically alter the look of the game especially, where is truly needed so I left it out and I don't think I'll ever start working on it.
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Ezekiel Macallister
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 8:08 am

Isn't this the same thing?

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9080

Just wondering!
Yeah... it's already been done. Unless this one is even smaller...
No, it's a different thing :biggrin:

My mod is an optimization of the entire Hi-Res DLC BSAs (resizing when possible), while msxyz is doing an even harder job with his mod, changing the DXT compression when possible and keeping the HD textures just when needed :thumbsup:

I've tried it and works great, give it a try guys :biggrin:
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Spooky Angel
 
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