I agree it sounds like crafting is somewhat imbalanced but if you roleplay most players will find a way around this, unless you play a class thats going to use one of these skills but even then RPing will soften the blow of any overpowered Crafting skilll.

It's not OP if you don't exploit it imo, I only smith when I need to smith, which levels up my smithing skills accordingly with all my other skills.

Yes I look at it as you actually have a choice on how you can raise each skill set.

If Talos can become a god, then by Ysmir's Beard, so can I!

Haha, I agree. Smashing a dagger and wrapping leather around it should not prepare me for working with dragon scales and bones. Its just silly and smells of 'unfinished'.

Although the other 2 professions do the same thing. I became a master enchanter by using petty gems on those daggers! Hahahahaha. I learned how to enchant 2 of the most powerful enchants on an item by putting 1 petty gem soul on a dagger. LOVE. IT.

I kind of agree with the OP but I also agree with this guy. Maybe smithing shouldn't give so much XP for lower level items but in the long run I think it is fine if the game allows players to get real good at it real fast if they want. TES games have always been about YOU creating your own balance. There is so much choice and so many ways to play. We can make the gameplay very difficult or very easy, its all up to us.

I don't beleive I refreshed to see that post you made, well, before you quoted it that is, I apologise for jumping the gun ^.^
I can't quite agree or disagree. In Roleplay terms, I say it makes no difference. You play as you wish, if you wish your character to be some cumbag cheap smith that icnreses his skill by using daggers, it's your conscience. lol.
Whereas, in terms of the generic players, whom aren't all as well attuned to that sort of play, that purely wish to kill stuff, get new gear, kill more stuff, get strong. Etc. It'sc ertainyl flawed for them, hugely. Very flew people could notice/discover such a flaw as easy levellign and not abuse it. It's human nature.

So in that sense, the ease of levelling, is ruining the experience as people on lower difficulties will find themselves become overpowered from an abusable *bug, lets say* when they may be seeking a general challenge thorughtout the game.
Which of course is unfair, game changing, and possibly ruining for some people.


But then, you have to look at alchemy and enchanting if you start dabbling with smithing. Ohhhh skyrim, so pretty yet so.... Spoiled by caving to the console market...

These skills are only OP if you make it OP

my smithing is 100. I have a set of dragonscale armor. I don't use it though, because then the game would be unbalanced. When the time comes, I'll have it made and ready to use.

Mastering daedric by making iron daggers is absurd.

i dont understand you people... overpowered means that something has notably greater effect RELATIVE to your other options. i dont care that smithing and enchanting can make you godly; every freaking TES game allows that at some point. the problem, what makes it overpowered, IS the scaling. they can be leveled far too easily while the skills they are supposed to compliment not only level much slower but dont scale nearly as well. the problem is that if you want to be a viable destruction mage, you HAVE to count on the broken scaling of enchanting. the problem is that smithing levels way too easily and you can become a master smith while barely knowing how to use anything you make.

The new patch is going to fix the iron dagger exploit. You heard it here first.

you can spend all your time training at home but when it comes to put your skills to the test theres nothing like first hand experience.
Play yo role, dont drone the [censored] out of it.

The roughly 30 perks one needs to waste doing the Smithing-Enchanting-Alchemy stupidity keeps things in check.

Point, counterpoint.

Can we all agree that the leveling system for smithing is HIGHLY exploitable? Now, can we take away the ability to exploit that system?

I mined ore from every mine I went to... why not. Seemed like the non-exploitable way to go about things. I reached level 100 long before any other skill... in fact, it is the only skill I have 100 in. Did I exploit this... maybe. But It wasn't like I focused solely on smithing for hours on end. I gathered raw materials from those mines, dwarven ruins, and hides from animals, and made the armor available to me with those materials. I also sank perks so that I could actually make armor out of all those dragons I've been killing along the way, and to make better armor for myself.

Many times with the TONS of leather I gathered from deer I would make the armor that is the most profitable and sometimes items not so profitable, so as to have the least amount of unused materials at the end of my crafting sessions. I did not make endless iron daggers, but whatever armor I could make out of the materials I had. I don't feel that I exploited the system, but it leveled it as I had the means to do so. I whole-heartedly feel that the smithing system is highly exploitable and flawed. Certainly crafting a dragonbone cuirass SHOULD add far more experience to you skill level than iron daggers over and over. The question becomes how do we fix that flaw.

Well, you can drastically lessen the amount of ore and ingots that vendors have on hand so that those who have the money cant power level the skill though their means alone. Although, that really doesn't seem fair to those who have tons of gold (despite how easy it is to make money). So turning Smithing into a money sink seems more appropriate. Make the ore and ingots cost more (still depending on your speech skill). Also, give the raw materials a base value, leather and iron being at the bottom of the barrel and dragon/daedric being the upper tier. The amount of raw materials used for each item, and by extension the sum of those materials should be what determines how much of a skill increase you get. It is absurd that you can go from 99 to 100 with a mere 7 iron daggers.

i think they should add "criteria" to crafting, and diminishing returns (so to speak).

First iron dagger = 100xp
Second = 90xp
Third =80xp

ann so on till you hit "10xp" The bare minimum an iron dagger will give is 10xp.

This should apply to everything. but also, to upgrade blacksmithing to the next criteria, you must of crafted ALL of the armor/weapons from the previous.

So to craft STEEL, i need to of created EVERYTHING from IRON.

Also, ontop of this, when you reach different skill intervals, the amount of xp rewarded for that item takes a %cut.

So, if at lvl 1, you recieve between 100xp(max) and 10xp(min), when you reach level 20 (or the requirement for STEEL), the max/min reward for an iron item is reduced to 50xp/5xp).
I think with this very simple system, blacksmithing will become far far more challenging. Perhaps even a quest that provide "plans" for the next upgrade to undertake to unlock., so many possibilities, like alot of things with this game, Bethesda have fallen very short.

Actually atm you can't become too powerful. Even with capped armor and 500 health, on expert and master some fellas can kill you in a couple of seconds. Sure you can oneshot them as well, but it's still dangerous. On the one hand that's good, cause you don't get bored, on the other hand it's a bit silly to level up just to keep the pace with them. Instead of bandits you can fight bandit marauders, yay.

Oddly enough I agree with you. I think that's why I don't like level scaling. No matter how badass you become, some random things will still be challenging instead of just bosses. OOO version of Skyrim please!

The problem with smithing and the other crafts has nothing to do with the crafts themselves but the combination of all three. The ability to make godmode items needs to be adressed officially or unofficially.

Funny thing. If you look at the last three posts together, you can see a very clear problem. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1292244-smithing-and-enchanting-are-not-op/page__view__findpost__p__19483506 of the three talks about how it's not possible to become too powerful. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1292244-smithing-and-enchanting-are-not-op/page__view__findpost__p__19483780 of the three talks about becoming way too powerful being a serious problem.

So, I don't think we will ever be able to settle on whether or not the player character can become X amount of powerful, or whether or not that is too much. What we can do, though, is look at how the skills compare to other skills, and do the best we can to balance them among themselves. Given that note, I think smithing needs to level more slowly, destruction needs to be more powerful on the high side, and enchanting just needs an overhaul.