I like the Dawnguard expansion, but the Soul Cairn is just a perfect example of terrible level design. Dark, empty, looks the same, boring and annoying. After being in their for 2+ hours I finally decided to get out of this hell hole. Popped the console open and typed in TCL. Just flew to the exit.

Does anyone like this area? It just seems so blah.

Edit: Reminded of the Dead Money expansion in New Vegas. I was finally just tired of the place and wanted out.

The first time it gave me goosebumps for the whole quest. Now I'm doing the DLC again, got to the SC, and this time it's... Boring. The music is still enjoyable, though.

It looks great, but verything looks the same It's like navagating through a maze.

You do know that is THE POINT! The Soul Cairn is suppose to be a never ending Graveyard with a few buildings here and there.. It is suppose to be mainly empty, except for the undead and souls.. And suppose to be Dark, Scary, etc...

Personally, I love it and they did an excellent job at making it. Gratz on Bethesda, I say!

I like the overall aesthetic, and I do appreciate the eerie atmosphere, but it's a navigational nightmare and it's not supposed to be. If Beth intended for the Soul Cairn to be a navigational nightmare, they'd have disabled map markers for quest objectives, which they didn't. So, it's poor/rushed level design. The placement of just a few more standout landmarks would have made it considerably better.

Navigating it reminded me of certain scenes from "The Flintstones" cartoon. The scenes where you'd see Fred running from someone while still inside his home.... which was evidently a mile-long corridor with the same furniture arrangement appearing every fifteen feet or so.

Couldn't have said it any better

You aren't supposed to like it...

I went through it as a high level character, so it wasn't any great risk, but it is frustrating and purple and pink....

+1
And for Morrowind veterans (or lore lover) there was "one of the great moments" of the DLC. To find Jiub in the Crain filled my heart with joy.
Also there is a lot to explore in the area: a hidden Boss, 2 optional quests, 3 unique spell tomes, a unique trader.

Disagree. I can't imagine a developer consciously setting out to design a level that a player isn't going to like or at least appreciate on some level. They may well set out to to rattle players by designing creepy levels that players will want to get the hell out as fast possible, but imagine the idea is to have the player say to themselves "Oh man, that was creepy. Glad I'm out of there. Pretty cool the way they did that though."

The OP isn't saying that. He's saying it was crap level design. I don't agree it was that terrible, but it did veer a little too close to "bleak and boring" for my tastes (largely because of how much time I spent running around in circles trying to find that stupid reaper place--- and boy, was that not worth it).

However, if the designer's intent was to depress the hell out of me, then he did a fine job.

It is suppose to be a navigational nightmare. Like I said, it is an endless graveyard with a few buildings here and there. Don't count the whole Map-Marker-Thing.. That is a GamePlay Mech.

I too found the soul cairn boring after the initial color shock wore off. Plus having to find all the stupid pages. I am still missing a few.

I think it's design is brilliant. Another massive place in an absurdly massive game.

I like the Soul Cairn, it gives the impression of being a dead wasteland and, even if you know where you're going, you still feel lost, and I think that's the point. I do agree that a few more landmarks would have been nice, hollowed out castles and towers that make it easier for the player to navigate, but also add to the feeling of constantly being in danger and needing to be on guard.


I've never played another TES game, so i had no idea who Jiub was, but I get the feeling I really should play the other games in the series.

As for the hidden tomes and the secret boss, I've only found one tome and no hidden boss, guess I'm going back in there

the soul cairn one of my favorite locations in the game

I love the Necromancy stuff

At first I thought it was cool, but as I explored and found out how big it was I got really disappointed with it. If it was half the size and didn't have the 'force field' walls I would have been much happier. I went back once to find the rest of the missing pages (Juib quest) and gave up after finding 6. I'm not about to comb that place inch by inch to find those pages.

I personally think helping Juib out and getting his awesome book makes the quest worth doing.

Protip: Playing an RPG and complaining about the amount of stuff to explore is like walking into a gym and complaining about the amount of sweat.

Saying something is badly designed just because you personally don't like it is insulting to those who designed it. If it had sections where you fell through the world, bugged enemies and glitched quests etc, then you could say the level is badly designed. But it doesn't have those errors, it is in fact a really nice place and has the appropriate atmosphere for what it is.

I personally hate all the Falmer caves cos they are way too bright and messing with my in-game display settings does literally nothing, but they are not badly designed (Dwemer areas aren't much better, tbh, though if somebody could tell me how to sort that problem I'd be really happy).

I meant 'you' as the character, not 'you' as the gamer.

As far as design goes, I was okay with it...and getting lost wasn't an issue, simply drop something as a marker point, such as a sword or shield etc, then you can work around from there, and pick your gear up later.

@Doozer, try dropping your anisotropic level on your graphics, that might help.

So, does that mean we should be condemning film critics for having the audacity to say "The cinematography in this film was horrible." or "The acting was atrocious."? You know, because the cinematographers and actors might get their feelings hurt?

There's no option for antistropic filtering in the in-game options :/

Unless you mean my graphics card, in which case I have no idea how (I use an nvidia card btw).

No, because making an objective statement about the quality of something is different to making a subjective statement about an entire area based on your own personal tastes (the OP is saying they found the area boring etc so that makes it badly designed. Well, I don't like RTS games cos I find them boring, does that mean all RTS games are badly designed? No, of course not, because subjective opinion is not the same as objective fact).

There are films where the acting/dialogue/editing/etc is utterly dreadful and you can make such statements as objective fact, because those things are objective fact (ie. An utter lack of emotion when acting out a scary scene in a horror movie). Yes, the level could be made better, by adding more notable landmarks, but that does not mean the level was badly designed, it just means there's room for improvement (but you can say that about almost anything, and my desire for more landmarks is also purely subjective, because it objectively does not need them).

It's art and therefore It's all subjective. There are people out there who think Kristen Stewart is a wonderful actress. That may be far and away from the popular opinion, but popular opinion does not = objective.

The OP gave his subjective opinion which he's entitled to do. You can disagree with him, but it's wrong-minded to condemn him for not considering how the developers might feel or that he shouldn't deliver his subjective opinion. The developers aren't doing charity work. They're getting paid. More importantly, they're being paid by us. We are the consumers and we therefore have every right to submit our opinions on the work that we've paid for.

And for that matter, anyone who puts their craft out for public consumption, no matter how thick or thin-skinned they might be, must understand that doing so will invariably invite criticism-- positive and negative.

I know, I was just saying that bad level design tends to really mean "buggy and unplayable", not "I don't like the aesthetics of the level/zone."

*its.

This is what the OP said:

"Dark, empty, looks the same, boring and annoying."

Agree with him or not, I think we should take his criticism at face value instead of trying to read it as truly meaning "buggy and unplayable."