?Steam, ? Games for Windows : V - Skyrim

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:41 pm

Steam means no mods. Why create the CS (construction set) then? It's official that there will be a CS. Do the math.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:29 am

Well, if they make it steam mandatory, maybe they could release DLC there as well. Xbox exclusives are already wearing a bit thin. I don't mind the steam requirement -- I already use steam for most things, and it beats the heck out of GFWL

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:24 am

Steam means no mods. Why create the CS (construction set) then? It's official that there will be a CS. Do the math.

What? Many games on steam have mods including Fallout New Vegas. I use the GECK perfectly fine with that being on steam.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:39 am

Steam means no mods.

SRSLY? Here is a list of all the mods I am currently running on my steam installation of Oblivion GOTY, in addition to OBSE, Qarl's Texture Pack 3 HD textures, OBGEv2 and ENBSeries shaders.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Silgrad_Tower.esm  [Version 3.36]02  Jog_X_Mod.esm03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]09  Armamentarium.esm0A  Artifacts.esm0B  Better Cities Resources.esm0C  Cobl - NPCDiversity - TNR Merge.esp  [Version 9.3EV-D]0D  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.3]0E  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0F  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]10  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]11  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]12  Symphony of Violence.esp13  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp14  WindowLightingSystem.esp15  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.1]16  FF_Real_Thirst.esp17  DLCOrrery.esp18  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]19  DLCVileLair.esp1A  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]1B  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp1C  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1D  DLCSpellTomes.esp1E  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1F  ArmamentariumVendors.esp20  SnakeArmor.esp21  trfjChronoStaff.esp22  XSPipeMod.esp  [Version 1.2]23  DLCThievesDen.esp24  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]25  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]26  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]27  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]++  Cobl Tweaks.esp  [Version 1.44]28  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp29  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2A  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp2B  FCOM_WarCryNoSpawn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2C  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]2D  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2E  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]2F  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]30  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  FCOM_SpawnRatesSlightlyReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]32  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]33  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  FCOM_LessReaversInGates.esp  [Version 0.9.9]35  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]36  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]37  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]38  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]39  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3A  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3B  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3E  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3F  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]41  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]42  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]43  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]44  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]45  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]46  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]47  300_Artifacts.esp48  Artifacts.esp49  hackdirtabyss.esp4A  Silgrad_Tower.esp  [Version 3.36]4B  thievery.esp4C  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]4D  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp4E  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]4F  DLCFrostcrag.esp50  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]51  Knights.esp52  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]53  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]54  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]55  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]56  xulTheHeath.esp57  XulEntiusGorge.esp58  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]59  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]5A  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]5B  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]5C  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.1]5D  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]5E  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]5F  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]60  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]61  xulPantherRiver.esp62  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]63  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1]64  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.6]65  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]66  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]67  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]68  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]69  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0]6A  Better Cities - House price patch.esp  [Version 1.0]6B  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.5]6C  Ashes to Ashes.esp  [Version 1.0]6D  Vampire Aging Disabled 2 XYoung.esp6E  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]6F  Moonshadow Elves - Sc.esp70  1em_Vilja.esp71  _Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp72  _Ren_BeautyPack_onlyhairs.esp73  tkHairPack01.esp74  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]75  ElaborateEyes.esp76  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]77  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]78  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]79  bgMagicAlchemy.esp  [Version 1.57]7A  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]7B  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]7C  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]7D  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]7E  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]7F  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]80  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]81  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]82  SM_VanillaSpells.esp  [Version 0.86]83  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]84  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]85  bgMagicEV_Conjuration_for_Supreme_Magicka.esp  [Version 1.5]86  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]87  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]88  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp89  ElaborateEyes-RensBeautyPackFull.esp8A  ElaborateEyes-RensBeautyPackHairsOnly.esp8B  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]8C  Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp  [Version 0.3]8D  Real Hunger, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.6.1]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]8E  FormID Finder4.esp8F  Better Cities Full.esp90  Better Cities .esp91  Better Imperial City.esp92  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp93  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp94  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2.1]95  Better Cities - Thievery.esp96  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp  [Version 4.8.1]97  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp98  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp  [Version 4.8.1]99  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp9A  TNR - ShiveringIsles no helms.esp9B  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:50 pm

Steamworks wipes the floor with GFWL :mellow:

EDIT: It's amazing how many people here don't know the difference between STEAM and Steamworks. If course it'll be available on STEAM, but will it use Steamworks for the achievements or GFWL?

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:48 pm

Right. Because Steam won't mind at all if I copy the game folder a few times to different locations, having a "clean" copy and several differently patched "modding" ones, and replacing some system DLLs in some of them with self-written / debugging ones. It won't even require me to apply any workarounds to make sure this stuff works, right? Right? :whistling:

Morrowind goty is available through Steam, and is moddable.

Oblivion goty is available through Steam, and is moddable.

Valve actually worked with the modders to make the game accessible and moddable, shortly after they became available on Steam.

I believe there is a section of forums on Steam that discuss this.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1358142

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900993

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 pm

Steam means no mods. Why create the CS (construction set) then? It's official that there will be a CS. Do the math.

Okay.

Morrowind goty on Steam moddable
+
Oblivion goty on Steam moddable
equals
Skyrim, if available on Steam, moddable as long as the new engine permits it.

How's my addition working?

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:04 am

Talaran, read what I replied to. The issue isn't that Steam games aren't moddable - they are, for the most part. The issue is that Steams makes it harder for modders. Even the links you posted mention rather extensive workarounds you have to do in order to use a mod (not even to mod yourself!) - as opposed to normal Oblivions "Install Oblivion, patch it to whatever version you want, install OBMM, download omods and double-click whatever you like to have installed" method.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:10 am

Talaran, read what I replied to. The issue isn't that Steam games aren't moddable - they are, for the most part. The issue is that Steams makes it harder for modders. Even the links you posted mention rather extensive workarounds you have to do in order to use a mod (not even to mod yourself!) - as opposed to normal Oblivions "Install Oblivion, patch it to whatever version you want, install OBMM, download omods and double-click whatever you like to have installed" method.

Here's what I had to do differently in order to install a large number of mods for Oblivion because I am using steam:

(1) open the bash.ini file in notepad and correct the file paths that tell Wyre Bash where to find various folders and exe files

(2) that's it

i have some mods installed via OBMM, in omod format, and others installed by dropping the files into the Data folder, no changes from the non-Steam process for installing mods.

Of course, there will be patches within the first few months after Skyrim is released to fix bugs. If you happen to have a lot of mods installed you would probably not want to install the patch right away, correct?

So right click on Skyrim in your steam library and select Properties->Updates->Do not automatically update this game.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:02 pm

Oh yeah, and steam makes it more difficult to mod the game.

absolutely not. the game with the biggest moding community (garry's mod) is steam only and every valve games are on steam and everyone knows thats valve game are highly modable. steam doesn't make games difficult to mod because the only difference is that your game folder is inside the steam folder but everything works the same (data files etc,,,,) dont use false arguments
If you're ignorant about steam, don't stand against steam.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:12 am

Got to love how everyone is completely ignoring what the topic is about, it looks to me that all the thread creator wanted to know is if the current game covers shown in online retailers is temporary.

By the looks of the cover shown online it is only a mockup, seeing as it looks very plain.

With regards to the other query it will probably be on steam seeing as all the rest are and region locking is decided by the publisher. However if it is not available in your region someone may always gift it to you from a region where it is available.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm

Here's what I had to do differently in order to install a large number of mods for Oblivion because I am using steam:

(1) open the bash.ini file in notepad and correct the file paths that tell Wyre Bash where to find various folders and exe files

(2) that's it

Now try the same when you're actually doing heavy-duty modding and testing, with OBSE + some plugins for that, with multiple separate installs so you can test both against plain Oblivion and Oblivion + SI, and so you can use the lip sync tool of the tool set (which is broken in the latest patch, but works fine in the previous one), and so on.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:36 am

Now try the same when you're actually doing heavy-duty modding and testing, with OBSE + some plugins for that, with multiple separate installs so you can test both against plain Oblivion and Oblivion + SI, and so you can use the lip sync tool of the tool set (which is broken in the latest patch, but works fine in the previous one), and so on.

I've never tried creating any mods and I have no idea how you would do multiple separate installs. I certainly hope Bethesda takes into consideration what modders need in order to properly test their mods.

I do have OBSE installed, and since New Vegas could only function with steam activation, I imagine there must be some workaround for steam installs. Or did New Vegas modders all need to buy the physical disc and merely activate through steamworks?

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:20 am

I for one will not buy the game if it requires a membership on Steam.

FO New Vegas is Steam mandatory: I did not buy it, and will not buy it, despite the fact that I loved Fallout3 and would buy NV in a heartbeat if I did not have to be involved in Steam = Steamophiles happy; Steamophobes alienated as customers, and fans.

Civ5 is Steam mandatory: I did not buy it and will not buy it, despite the fact that I was for years a huge CivFanatic and would buy Civ5 out of simple curiousity if I did not have to be involved in Steam = Steamophiles happy; Steamophobes alienated as customers, and fans.

Contrast with:

Mount&Blade Warband: available via Steam, but is not Steam mandatory. I bought it via Gamersgate, and love it. Guys who prefer to use it via Steam also bought it via Steam = Steamophiles and Steamophobes both happy.

I hope for the sake of you guys who like Steam that it will be available in the form you prefer. However, I believe Bethesda, and the other publishers who are going with making Steam mandatory on games are making a very big longterm mistake by alienating those of us who do not wish to participate in Steam. I don't care if it is easy to use offline, if it is moddable or not. The fact that it involves some obligation to network in order to make use of my end-user license, as well as other elements in the Steamworks EULA make me unwilling to use that particular distributor.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:11 pm

@Anthropoid I'm in the same boat. I don't buy games that require Steamwork simply because I don't wish to use Steam. It also annoy me greatly when I buy a boxed game, but that I need to install Steam to install the game. Happened once, wont happen again.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:30 pm

I'm interested to know what might be objectionable about using Steam activation (and the EULA) for a particular boxed game compared the online activation for any other non-Steam boxed PC game. (Most would have some form of online activation, right?)

If there is something really bad in the EULA, I would genuinely like to know, as I have already purchased a number of digital download games through steam.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:30 am

ah... deja vu all over again.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:03 pm

I'm interested to know what might be objectionable about using Steam activation (and the EULA) for a particular boxed game compared the online activation for any other non-Steam boxed PC game. (Most would have some form of online activation, right?)

If there is something really bad in the EULA, I would genuinely like to know, as I have already purchased a number of digital download games through steam.

As stated in the other countless threads:
It is not about online activation or online distribution. It is about the user being forced to install an agent in the user's computer for a service that will take control away from the user and force the user to utilize a 3rd party service the user has no desire to use. It's been explained multiple times in multiple ways.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:45 pm

There are at least two issues that make mandatory Steamworks a Bad Thing^TM.

1) A lot of people have slow / unreliable Internet connection, and have trouble with games that need activation.

"In this day and age, everybody has fast internet."

Everybody you know, perhaps. In many countries the internet is 5-10 years behind. In western Europe we are very lucky. I guess the same goes for USA. Africa, on the other hand...

http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/map/internet-penetration.html

Another thing is the payment model for internet. It's quite rare here in Denmark to pay by data volume. In some countries that's the way they do it. Having a mandatory gigabyte-sized update on release day is essentially an added cost that in some countries could be comparable to the price of the game. The game won't run at all without these 'day one' updates. Granted, it's not Steamworks' fault that developers choose to do this, but apparently the temptation to do so is irresistable for a lot of developers - I guess it means they can send the boxes to the shops without actually finishing the game. Without Steamworks the temptation is not there.

"I have fast internet, so that's not a problem for me."

Good for you. I also have fast internet. Even though I chose the slowest internet connection my provider offers (30mbit up/down, unlimited data).

The point being, access to fast broadband is very dependant on the country you live in, and whether you live in the city or in the middle of nowhere. It's not a problem for me or you, but it's a problem for a huge number of people around the world, some of which really want to play the game.

2) Control (and possibility of activation in 15 years' time)

I don't really agree with the people saying that PC gaming is dying. A lot of the more mainstream titles are selling better on consoles, perhaps, but the creativity on display in smaller PC titles right now is astounding. It's a cyclical thing, and I remember the same discussion in the days of the Playstation 1 and Sega Saturn.

But IF you believe that PC gaming is in trouble, why would you want to give the keys to your newly-purchased game to a company that makes its money from PC gaming? There is no guarantee that they won't close down at some point.

In a bankruptcy situation, the original employees most likely do NOT have the power to spend time / wages on stuff that does not benefit the shareholders - who want to rescue as much of their money as possible. Stuff like going through their back catalogues and unlocking all the games so that they no longer require activation.

"But the reason PC gaming is dying is because of piracy. Steam prevents piracy."

No it doesn't. Steam games get cracked about as quickly as non-Steam games. I have no idea if it's more difficult for the crackers, but it doesn't seem to slow them down very much (and the challenge is surely what makes it fun for these people?). Stardock used to release games with a minimum of DRM. They got pirated, like anything else, but apparently they also sold well (at least according to the hype).

There is also the wider issue of control. You buy the game, it would be nice to have complete control over it. Install it on a computer that is not connected to the internet, install it in whatever folder you want, etc.

I actually think Steam is a really handy tool for some games, especially cheap action games that I just want to play through a couple of times. But Skyrim is a game that a) is completely single-player and thus has little advantage of Steamworks features (online saves are cool, but a lot of us presumably only have access to one computer powerful enough to play Skyrim anyway, and as soon as mods come into the equation it becomes very difficult to play a save on other machines), and B) is hopefully the sort of game we will want to replay 20 years from now, leading to concern about the activation process etc. Therefore, MANDATORY Steam is IMHO a bad idea.

I agree with the general points you made, but I'd like to correct you on some details.

The purpose of DRM is not to prevent all piracy forever. The purpose of DRM is to prevent two specific kinds of piracy: casual piracy and day zero piracy. Casual piracy means being able to simply share the game with your friends instead of everybody having to buy their own copy. And day zero piracy is when the pirated version of the game is available for download on the same day when the game is released. Nowadays major titles make the most sales in the first week after release so preventing piracy in that first week is by far the most crucial. Think about it, they announced Skyrim in December and the marketing machine will be hyping it more and more up to release. A lot of people can already hardly wait to play the game and when the game is fianlly released many potential pirates will rather buy the game immediately instead of having to wait another week before they could get their hands on a pirated copy.

So I can't really begrudge any company for using DRM. However, once whatever copy protection the game is using is broken all further copies of the game should in my opinion be sold without any copy protection harsher than a disc check (to prevent casual piracy).

For more information on DRM and piracy, here is a link to an excellent article on the topic: http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

Anyway, my stance is that optional STEAM for people who want to use it = great, but mandatory STEAM for everyone = bad. And I really hate the idea of online activation for singleplayer games. It's my firm belief that if I buy a retail copy of a game I shouldn't need a bloody internet connection to install and play it.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:26 pm

I'm interested to know what might be objectionable about using Steam activation (and the EULA) for a particular boxed game compared the online activation for any other non-Steam boxed PC game. (Most would have some form of online activation, right?)

I sure hope not. I hate online activation for singleplayer games and that's really the main reason why I object to full Steam integration.

As I've said before, I understand the need to prevent zero day piracy. So as far as I'm concerned they can have any kind of copy protection they deem necessary for that first week. But once the pirates crack the protection I want them to release a retail version of the game that uses nothing harsher than a disc check. Something I'll still be able to play in 20 years.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:02 am

I want a GFWL version because of the achievements.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:27 am

@Anthropoid I'm in the same boat. I don't buy games that require Steamwork simply because I don't wish to use Steam. It also annoy me greatly when I buy a boxed game, but that I need to install Steam to install the game. Happened once, wont happen again.

I'm in that boat as well, I bought a game from Amazon & didn't find out until it was too late that it was Steamwork'ed, wasn't mentioned on site (or anywhere for that matter) until after I got the game.

while the game was OK I regret getting it, not an experience I want to go through again.

» Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:54 pm

I'm interested to know what might be objectionable about using Steam activation (and the EULA) for a particular boxed game compared the online activation for any other non-Steam boxed PC game. (Most would have some form of online activation, right?)

If there is something really bad in the EULA, I would genuinely like to know, as I have already purchased a number of digital download games through steam.

I touched on this in the Steam thread I made, it's likley buried a dozen pages back by now, but I'll give you the quick version. The EULA of a game typically says that you have the right to use your license in a manner that the creators deem appropriate. If you use the game in an unauthorized way then the company can revoke your license. Now enter Steam, if you have a dispute with VALVe that results in them disabling your account then thay have also denied you the fair use of any and all game licenses you have purchased, even though you have not violated the EULA of any of those game.

I'm in that boat as well, I bought a game from Amazon & didn't find out until it was too late that it was Steamwork'ed, wasn't mentioned on site (or anywhere for that matter) until after I got the game.

while the game was OK I regret getting it, not an experience I want to go through again.

Make sure there is room on that boat for me. I did not buy New Vegas because of the Steam requirement, if Skyrim requires Steam I will not buy it. If Skyrim requires Steam I'll give up looking forward to future Bethesda games, period.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:16 am

Watch this.

Click play in offline mode
/plays in offline mod.

Good times. Also by the physical copy.

Already clicked play in offline mode. Already bought the physical copy.

But hey, thanks for completely ignoring what I actually said and why I actually object to Steam. I wouldn't want you to have to think about the issues, or anything.

» Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:08 am

I can certainly understand why some people would prefer non-Steam options. Although, much of the objections are based on potential future failings that are also applicable to any game that requires on-line activation.

I just doubt it will happen, to be honest. I suspect the advantages of Steam to the publishers will outweigh the negatives to some of the customers/potential customers.

New Vegas is the test and I'd suspect Skyrim will be the answer. If Skyrim is Steam only, then I suspect that will be all she wrote on the subject.