Spoiler

Well, you can end it by a peace treaty, should you feel that you need to.

I'd help those races... die... very painfully.

I doubt that they would let you go to 2-3 provinces in a dlc. Also, I don't believe Valenwood could be turned against the Dominion. Elsweyr possibly could if someone told them that the Dominion didn't save the moons.

Or it tries to make the Dominion seem not so bad and make it seem like all the stuff against the Dominion in Skyrim was just a combination of biased opinions and strategic planning. But I think that is unlikely, because I don't think I've seen anybody that likes the Thalmor.

Stormcloak.

I'm not partial to being woken up, and, through no fault of my own, whisked off to indescribable torture at the hands of a sadistic elf with a fake tan and a superiority complex.


Hammerfell did. Remember that the Empire is only two and a half provinces now, and always one wrong word away from civil war. There's not much that it can do that a unified Skyrim could not. Skyrim's past history as founder of the First Empire and victor of the the War of the Bend'r-mahk (during which the empire was an utter irrelevance) proves that it can hold its own.

Don't forget that Skyrim has better warriors than Cyrodiil and High Rock.

What I'd like to see is a Skyrim/High Rock/Hammerfell/maybe even the remainder of Morrowind in an alliance against the Thalmor. They would own Summerset and Valenwood like a boss.

Elisif denies worshipping Talos. But I'm sure you're right that many imperials privately hold to belief in Talos. The thing is, in Tamriel, outward forms do count. The destruction of Talos shrines will weaken Talos himself, and he is the Thalmor's greatest enemy.
You're wrong about that. Talos is anchoring Mundus and he is humanity's foothold in the mythic. He has to be removed in order for the Thalmor to achieve their wackadoodle leap into godhood plans. And he can actually be killed, so this is a real threat, not just a political one.

It doesn't really matter which side wins. The Thalmor will take advantage of whatever the outcome is, and will keep pursing their plans forcing Shor to make an appearance to put a stop to it.

There's two things about an independent Skyrim that make me hesitant to support it.

1. Both Rikke and Brunwulf Free-Winter claim that Ulfric desires to see all non-nords removed from Skyrim. While both sources are obviously questionable, you can see signs of racism. The Dunmer in Windhelm aren't a very good example, since they are exempt from taxes and have the right of self-governance, meaning they could from a council that imposes taxes to renovate the gray quarter instead of complaining that Ulfric doesn't give them handouts anymore, but the argonians are a different matter. The book "Scourge of the Grey Quarter" says the argonians in Windhelm work hard and embrace the nord ideal of it, yet Scouts-Many-Marshes claims Ulfric himself kicked them outside the walls.

And in Whiterun Adrianne claims she gets much less business and wouldn't get any if her husband wasn't a nord. And Arcadia says the Stormcloaks won't buy from her at all.

Does Ulfric want to kick all non-nords out of Skyrim? I honestly doubt it. But I also fear he doesn't consider the issue important enough to reign in his more extreme followers.

2. Nords dislike magic, regardless of their allegiance. But with Jarl Korir in Winterhold and the nords ruling themselves, I see bad days ahead for the College. At best it will be ignored, and at worst actively censored. All the elves they have there probably wouldn't help them.


More importantly, however, I feel that as Dragonborn, my character has a more legitimate claim for the Ruby Throne than that craven Titus Mede II or anyone on the Elder Council. So destroying the Empire by helping remove Skyrim from it seems stupid for a character with such aspirations.

Both Rikke and Brunwulf support the Imperials, Brunwulf says that the argonians must remain outside the walls for their own safety, and Adrianne is the daughter of Proventius Avennici, the steward of Whiterun, who supported the Imperials. Everyone who has been in Whiterun for at least two minutes knows that Adrianne gives her father the advice he gives to Balgruuf. The two alchemists and Windhelm are an Altmer and an Imperial and the Stormcloaks buy from them. They must have some other reason to not buy from Arcadia, who is also an Imperial.

Oh gods, so much this. I used to feel sorry for her when she said she didn't get much business after the SCs took Whiterun and would have to close up if she wasn't married to a Nord. Then I realize that she can barely open her mouth without talking about the influence she has with Balgruuf because of her father's position. Yeah, lady, somehow I don't think that just being an Imperial is the problem. Don't spend every other waking minute claiming to be an unofficial mover-and-shaker in the enemy power structure and then boo-hoo about how the other side doesn't trust you when they roll into town. I'm guessing her marriage is the only thing that kept her from having to pack up and leave Whiterun with the rest of Balgruuf's court.

And I'm not sure I'd trust Arcadia that much either if I were new in town, not because she's an Imperial but because she tries to diagnose me with a nonexistent illness every time I go into her shop. I don't think she'd deliberately try to poison anyone, but she's either not a very perceptive healer or a con artist trying to sell more potions by scamming people into thinking they're sick when they're not.

Skyrim as an Independent State would be a mistake, much for the reasons Champion of Nocturnal stated.

Additionally Skyrim would not be able to withstand the Thalmor on it's own. The Empire needs unity if it is to withstand additional wars with the Thalmor.

Unfortunately this probably means the next TES game will take place 100 years or more into the future so as to avoid the sticky subject of who won the rebellion. I'm not sure how they'll avoid it, or even for sure if they will, but I can't wait to see.

Stormcloaks.

I think that for now, it comes down to priorities. Ulfric has to win a war, and that needs resources and troops... I think that's why he helps Nords first... he has to set his priorities. He wants to win. Most of his supporters are Nords, so he has to get as much supporters as possible. If he won I think he would be able to spare more aid to the other races.

Some Nords. A lot of the guards in the cities say things like they have strong respect for Restoration and only say to be careful with magic.

I joined both in two different games, but my first game was Imperial

Where are people getting this? Where does it say Dunmer don't pay taxes and don't work hard? If your talking about the broken tower that was before Ulfric the Dunmer themselves everything was worse once he took over, so maybe Ulfric's father was just the one who honored that deal. The Argonians may work hard at the docks for manual labor the Dunmer arn't lazy squatters themselves: 1 Owns/Works his own farm, 1 owns a business, 1 is a meat vendor, 1 works for the Nords at the docks, 1 is the nanny to a rich Nord family, and 2 work at the corner club. In fact they all seem to have jobs.

Add in that the Nords still harass them and Ulfric according to Free-Winter won't lift a finger to help out the Dunmer or any other race besides Nord I still think it's implied Ulfric is a racist even if just compared to his father who seemed like a good man..

As to who I side with I usually will help out the Empire, but for the most part want no part in the squabble both are bad but because my race's brothers and sisters are in danger (Along with any race not Nord) I go Empire. If it were Ulfric's father instead of him I'm sure my Dunmer would have joined Stormcloaks.

Legion.

Tons of reasons really that I've explained in other threads. I've been an Imperial since Morrowind, so naturally I've grown an attachment to them. Their glory days have definitely passed, but their cause and vision is still far superior to Stormcloaks, IMO.

The Decree of Monument. They are untaxed and untithed; hence Ulfric has no responsibiility to protect them, nor do they owe any dues to Ulfric. The Gray Quarter is essentially a self-governing canton.


How can you claim that there's discrimination against the Dunmer yet in the same breath rattle off a list of them who've made it big? That farm owner employs a Nord; evidence, surely, that they're more equal than Ambarys (the owner of a business himself) cares to admit? And that's only Windhelm; what about the Dunmer businessmen, artisans, and officials in Winterhold and Riften?


He doesn't actually help the Nords either. Four young Nord women from prominent Nord families are murdered and he doesn't lift a finger. Nor does he retake Fort Amol or offer assistance to the East Empire Company in their quest to extirpate pirates. It's due to a lack of resources owing to the war, not racism.

First char was neutral, second was a 'Cloak, third is joining the Legion. But I think my future characters will choose Ulfric, or (in a few cases) remain neutral.

In my case it there are two reasons why I chose the Stormcloaks.

1) Has to do with Skyrim. The ban on Talos, the attempt of killing you in the beginning and the opinion that the original inhabitants of Skyrim should not rule Skyrim is more than enough for me to join the Stormcloaks.

2) In real life, I live in Belgium. Belgium is divided in two regions "North" and "South". In the north the Flemish live (Dutch Speaking) in the South the Walloons live (French Speaking). Since 1830 (beginning of Belgium) they want to control us, be in charge and want the French language to be the most important one. The North wants independence, the South wants Belgium like it is. Because if we would be independent, a lot of money wouldn't flow anymore to the South (happens now). Lastly our "King" and his family can't say more than 10 words in Dutch and are known to support the French speaking part more than the Dutch Speaking part of Belgium. So the Stormcloaks are in a way the North of Belgium, while the South and the Kingdom could be compared to the Imperial Legion. Like in real life, I fight for our independence in Skyrim.

It would help if you finish reading my posts the monument is broken and was there before Ulfric's time there is nothing in game that suggests he still follows those rules. Dunmer however suggest it has gotten worse sense he's taken over hinting towards the latter.


Yes because if you own a business that obviously means your not getting discriminated against. *Face Palm*. I said they weren't lazy squatters like the people suggest and that they actually try and involve themselves more in Windhelm yet are still treated like 2nd hand citizens. Just because you can afford to start a business and work hard to keep it doesn't mean people aren't prejudice against you.



Last I checked the guards are looking into it, they may not be successful but he still has them looking into it. Where as a known Nord is yelling and causing a racket in the middle of the night and he gets to do it. As for the East Empire Company they do just as much if not more business with the Empire so it's not that far of that he wouldn't want to help them either.

Stormcloaks at first, but then I kinda regretted that decision once it was over. I guess the intro sequence had left me somewhat poorly disposed towards the Imperials. I always found it odd that neither side seemed to care much about the dragons, apparently their squabble was more important than the end of the world.

Cheers to you fellow Imperial!

I find it funny that so many people state that Skyrim wouldn't stand a chance against the Aldmeri Dominion outside of the Empire. Hammerfell has been kicking Aldermi ass for a long time already while the Aldmeri Dominion wasn't at war with anyone else, so they could devote all resources to the war against the Redguards. Yet they can't win. So, all that "Skyrim doesn't stand a chance" stuff is all made up stuff and ingame it's Empire propaganda.

As for the Dunmer in Windhelm, remember how incredibly racist the Dunmer are themselves, having had the Argonians in slavery. They should be grateful they are allowed to live in another people's city at all. Also, the few racist Nords in Windhelm doesn't make Ulfric racist. It's not racist that a people wants to rule themselves.

As for Ulfric being the cause of the Thalmor tortures and killings, it was the Empire who signed the Concordat and it's the Empire who allows these persecutions of their own people happen while they are the authority who should be protecting them. This alone completely obliterates any right to rule of the Empire. Blaming Ulfric would only be justified if the Empire would have broken the treaty and kicked the Thalmor out the moment they actually started killing innocent citizens, because that's what they should have done. Now they are just being destroyed from the inside and they allow it to happen.

The Empire is weak and corrupt, the glory of the Septim Dynasty is long lost. Skyrim doesn't need the Empire, Hammerfell has proven that. Ulfric may not be a saint, but Skyrim doesn't need a saint. By Ysmir, they are freakin' Nords after all!

Yeah in this is exactly why for the most part I stay neutral.


You realize how far back that was right? Slavery was abolished in Morrowind during Oblivion they even fought a civil war over it. So what did the Argonians do after that? After a huge diaster already claiming a ton of lives they invade Morrowind and start hunting down the Dunmer living there along with Nord and Orc mercenaries.

As for Ulfric if he isn't doing anything to stop it he's part of the problem plain and simple, this is his city now it's his responsibility to calm his people. Also of course people wanting to rule themselves isn't racist it's the stuff they are doing to the Dunmer and the rest of the races that is. Argonians not allowed to live in the city and Dunmer being harrased and looked down upon.

Three and a half, actually. But if the Stormcloaks take Skyrim, then High Rock is cut off from the rest of the Empire, and the Empire is more or less reduced to just Cyrodiil and Morrowind.

Ah, and that doesn't count for the Empire then? They aren't doing anything against the Thalmor torturing and killing innocent citizens, often at random. What is worse, not making sure that all Dunmer in Windhelm are cozy and live luxurious or allowing your archenemies to execute your own citizens?

These are hard times, there is a civil war going on. The Dunmer shouldn't whine so much, like that High Elf(!) woman who lives in Windhelm also says.