Say I have the requirements needed for both of them by level 8 when they become available, which one would be more optimal to take?

Does it depend on how many small items you're carrying around vs. larger items? For the sake of sanity, let's assume it's not hardcoe so ammo doesn't affect this. I'm thinking that by level 8 you'll have 2-3 weapons you use often and still be collecting high weight crafting components (Eg. Fission Battery and Steam Gayge Assembly from FO3).

If this is the case, then Strong Back might be the better choice. Later on once you're near the max level you should also rely less on 1 weight items and carry more situational weapons (I know I did in FO3), so Strong Back might win there too.

I bet there's something obvious I've missed in this decision though.

Why not take both?

Listen to the pro arm-wrestler, he knows about strong stuff. ^_^

It depends on whether or not you play hardcoe. If you go hardcoe, I would definitely invest in Pack Rat, as it will halve the weight of all of your ammunition, making for much more carrying capacity. If not, go Strong Back.

It all depends how much Strength is influenced into weight. I'd pick Strong Back but its optional with only 15 perks to choose from.

pack rat is great if you carry mines and nades food and water. it also will handle many of the pistols and smaller melee weapons and unarmed too. also weapon mods might weigh under 2 lb and I dont know what repair kits weigh.


My first char will take both.

I'll probably just take both.

Pack rat would probably be more useful if you plan on doing a lot of scavenging since small items generally have higher caps to weight ratios.

Non-hardcoe: Strong back prioritized over Pack Rat.

Light items are of course a major focus of hardcoe, but in Normal mode you don't need to worry about allocating weight slots for ammo, food, water, chems, ingredients, etc. So the light items that would normally provide a large amount of half-weight allocation in hardcoe mode already weigh nothing. So the benefit is largely reduced because you don't have to carry tons of items in the light weight range. A straight extra 50 weight allocation is generally going to be the better perk choice in Normal.

Also consider that Strong Back requires no skill, while Pack Rat requires a blistering 70 in barter. With there being fewer skill points per level and only a handful of permanent skill books, this is a pretty significant investment.

I've decided to take both, this gives me one less combat perk, but I'll live. The 70 barter skill is gonna kill me, but perhaps it's useful in this game. Faster caps, faster implants.

Thanks for your replies everyone.

50 points extra weight,
or
100 pounds of stuff that together adds up to only 50 pounds of weight because of pack rat

see'ing as pack rat REQUIRES you to be overloaded with stuff to add up to the same benefit of Strong back perk, and has a bartering requirement.
yea... i think the answer is fairly obvious here. Strong back looks like a winner, hardcoe or not.

please correct me if this reasoning is wrong in some way.

My first character will have both and 10 str in the end. Thats 300 lb carry cap and thus I cvould be toting 100 lb of heavy stuff and 400 lb of light stuff.

if that's how you roll
personally i'd stash the light stuff i currently wasn't using, as well as any heavy stuff i wasnt using at the time.

my FO3 char never had more than 70-100 pounds on her standard gear set and everything else stashed at the house.

between 3-4 choices of weapons, armor, and the rest scattered between what would actually apply to pack rat, that left barely 20-30 pounds into pack rat gear
and all the free space would be for vender junk(sellable weapons/armor) or more stuff to stash away (which yes, could be more pack rat stuff.)

it would depend on the character,.. how much of a "pack rat" you actually are with your character i guess (a friend of mine literally picks up every piece of crap in the game,.. every last thing no matter how useless)

but seriously... 400 pounds of stimpacks, drug, poisons, grenades? if thats how you play, but it isn't helpful any unless those are from loot you just got that you intend to sell... otherwise the space is wasted, all that stuff isn't helping in the least bit. But you do make a point... someone could do that to make the perk more viable than strong back.

i dont think i USED even 50 pounds worth of stimpacks/drugs combined in one playthrough of FO3
alcohol is another matter >.> dont judge me!

Since stimpacks and drugs were completely weightless in Fallout 3 IIRC, it is highly unlikely you used 50 pounds worth of them, yes;)

stims and drugs never weighed anything in fo3 and dont in fo nv either...

Food however does and so does water. It will simply make it alot easier to loot stuff and collect ammo after fights and small weapons too. Also foraging for fruit/roots/plants and meat will be alot easier if it weighs half as much.

Finaly while my char wont take explosives I will fling alot of nades and lay some mines down... if I dont sell em fitrst;/

Finaly as my character will be focusing on all the craffing skills ill have a metric arseload of junk to make it all with.. and need to constantly collect more.

Drugs (and ammo) weigh something in hardcoe Mode, too, as far as I know.

mods
i forgot they dont normally weigh anything,.. i always have a mod on that changes that

i'll have to play the game before im set on rather or not pack rat is worth it for the food/water/ammo
i still cant imagine it would weigh more than i normally hauled around with my FO3 char unless the person in question just plain didnt care that they were carrying more than they'd ever use.
And neglected having a proper stashing spot.

both perks are convient either way, its just a matter of play style to determine which one you'd get more use out of.

meh

i will take strong back.. as its requirements are much easier to afford.

the idea of amassing 70 (closer to 50) points into barter specific to that perk, really puts me off. Might work with that perk if it was in the 50 or less range, but 50 points for a skill more usefull ie. medicine, repair, lockpick, hell even sneak or speech would seem the better investment.

will just have to travel more.. or be better selective in what I choose to loot.

cheers
d

Nope even in hardcoe mode drugs dont seem to weigh anything.. least from the vids I have seen. ammo yes drugs no.

I would get Pack Rat but the 70 Barter is just crazy!

I think I will go with Pack Rat, the 70 barter won't be a problem as its a requirement for Long Haul as well.

My outdoorsman will be making a killing off the land, and the less weight ammunition/food/water take, just means more goods I can bring back to sell (for more with good barter).

Add the travel light perk to offset whatever -move% for being overweight as well.

Guess thats just my mindset. Work hard hunting by day, and live large in vegas at night....with some impants as well!

Strongback's requirements are easier to meet.