I've been playing with the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Weapons and [http://www.product-reviews.net/2011/11/04/full-list-of-skyrim-perk-trees-skills-abilities-and-unlocks-revealed/], and trying to figure out the way to get the most damage out of a single strike as possible in a single vanilla playthrough. Heres my attempt. Try to beat it using the figures i've used, we'll make a game of it.

I'm using the statistics for Daedric Weapons in Oblivion as the base number, and those are:

Daggers: 19
Shortsword: 21
Longsword: 24
Claymore: 26
Mace: 24
War Axe: 22
Battle Axe: 26
Bow: 21
Arrow: 15

For enchanting, we will assume an elemental effect for an additional 10 Base dmg.
And for a poison, we will also work with 10 dmg, for simplicity's sake.


Here we Go.

Dagger: 19dmg

Sm Daedric Smithing for improved blade by double: 38dmg
1H Armsman (5 of 5) for 100% more damage: 76dmg
Sn Assassin's Blade for 15x damage: 1,140dmg


1,140dmg+


Fire Enchantment: 10dmg
En Extra Effects for another +10dmg : 20dmg
En Enchanter (5 of 5) for 100% stronger enchant : 40dmg
En Fire Enchanter for 25% dmg : 50dmg


50dmg +

Poison of Damage Health: +10dmg:

Al Alchemist (5 of 5) for 100% stronger poison: 20dmg
Al Purity (no positive effect): 20dmg
Al Poisoner for 25% stronger poison: 25dmg

1,140
+
50
+
25
----

1,215dmg in one hit.


If i left out any possible multipliers, let me know. Post below if you think you can find a way to beat this attack using these figures (which are not perfect, but as long as we agree to use them, the results will be fair).

Cheers.

Yeah, sounds like if you get a double poisoned dagger sneak attack off... nothing should survive.

That is crazy!

I don't plan to use poisons, daggers, or sneak though so it won't apply to me but for people who do they can deal out some massive damage!

Do aoe power attacks count?

Dual wielding?

And nice, I forgot that daggers had such high base damage in oblivion.

Also, that is 2000+ damage with the orsimer berserk power.

Posting in bold and that white text for every comment you make in order to make your post out... in an attempt to feel important... is quite annoying. Maybe have some consideration for other peoples eyes?

1. IIRC that 19 base damage number is not a per-hit number but a per-second number.
2. In Oblivion, poison damage was multiplied by the sneak attack multiplier. No word on whether or not it is in Skyrim yet, but I default to assuming it is. Alchemy is afterall a stealth skill these days.
3. Why are you assuming that daedric smithing doubles the damage of the blade? I was under the impression that we knew that daedric smithing rank 2 doubles the *improvement* amount of on daedric on not having the 2nd rank of daedric smithing, but knew nothing of how much that was overall as a percentage of the normal damage.

@ #1: Oh, good/sad point. I really hope daggers have high base damage in Skyrim. At least 2/3 the base damage of swords on average and I will be happy.
@ #2: Woah!... I never knew that and I played Oblivion for a million hours... that is awesome, and having a 15x poison multiplier would also be crazy...

I'm pretty sure daggers have lower base damage in Skyrim. It would seem that they've been nerfed during open conflict.

Looking over your list and wanted to add something. Destruction offers specializations with particular schools of fire. This may apply to enchantments as well as direct damage spells. If so, 5 ranks in +fire damage could net you an additional 50 damage.

Also, there's a chance Bethesda will allow sneak multipliers to be applied to poisons/enchants in addition to the strike itself. If Bethesda would allow those changes, the blow could deal several thousand damage instead of "merely" a thousand.

going purely off memory, didnt vampirism add to ur stats? not sure if u took that into account. i assume vampirism in skyrim will do the same

Read that there's an item which doubles sneak critical damages in another forum. Fairly easy to get, too.

I bet they nerfed the damage of daggers in this game. Two handed weapons deal much more damage now than one handed weapons do.

Iron Claymore=16
Iron Longsword=9
Iron Dagger=??? 4-5?

Why does it seem that they have been nerfed to lower base damage? Because you think they should or because of something you have heard?

I personally think having shorter reach and no critical hit perks (and possibly restriction from other one-handed perks as well) makes up for the increased attack rate and the larger sneak attack. Even if the damage was exactly the same it would seem fair, since a sneak attack on an opponent usually means that opponent is going to die easily no matter which weapon type you used.

@Albino: If it is a 4-9 damage ratio between daggers and longswords, that would mean longswords would be easier to sneak attack with because of the longer range and also they would deal MORE damage than dagger on sneak attacks. That would be very depressing... Also, I think they made the two-handed do so much more damage because you cannot dual wield them or carry a shield with them. Daggers don't have an advantage over longswords that is at all comparable to that. (Also, if I sound like I'm arguing too intensely it is only because I'm getting anxious that Bethesda did nerf the daggers...)

Realistically, one would probably not use a dagger in combat. Even if you were to, your blade is not long enough to inflict serious damage to your opponent at arm's length away. This is why daggers get the sneak multiplier perk, yet no other weapons do. A dagger is more practical for stealth kills, and more efficient at it than other weapons.

On topic: It would seem massive amounts of damage are possible. Cool.

Have you considered bows and arrows?

8x6=48 dam?
4x15=60dam?
Daggers=Better at stealth kills?
@Maric Other weapons get a 6x bonus. I wonder what two handed weapons get. lemme check.

EDIT-two handers probably have like a x2 multiplier but there is no mention of them on the entire tree.

New info. Updating numbers. God my math was off before. How did no one catch that?

I want to dual wield daggers anyway, despite that. That's why I'm hoping they actually do get a boost from the Armsman perk. If they don't, I'll have to change my build. But I digress.

Iron dagger 4 attack, weight 2. Iron sword 8, weight 9.

so, 50 percent. The ratio should follow up the tree in materials, maybe it doesn't, but there is the baseline.

Do armsmen increase dagger damage? The info we have seen ealier at PAX says they don't. But recent sources seems to indicate that the line about "excluding daggers" on the armsmen description has been removed.

Also, if you factor in armor of 85%. the damage is greatly reduced. This means, having dual-wield mace and dagger could possibly have the best final damage, assuming the dual-power-hit has the properties of ignoring 75% armor and critical damage bonus of x15.

If daggers aren't affected by armsman, then they're worthless. I'm tempted to abandon my Argonian build and just go with a Khajiit; get heavy armor and just punch things to death. That seems more effective than two daggers at this point...

If push comes to shove, I'll just drop the difficulty all the way. Daggers would probably be over-powered at that point.

? the dagger doesn't ignore the armor because the mace does. dagger critical x15 is for sneaking. bleh

If you are still pursuing your dual dagger build, then yes, armsman will decide it. BUT, if you take the armsman perk, assuming it works- you will be better off in open with a blade (that you perked with armsman) anyways.

Dagger for the start/sneak kills. sword for when things get real.

Rogues are all about versatility. Warriors are the ones who marry themselves to a weapon. Best weapon for the job at hand I say.

They could have identical base damage to swords and still be nerfed considering how perks work now.

I posted last page the baseline damages. looks like 50 percent.

The most powerful strike in the game will likely be a unique combination of enchantments, poisons, potions, smithing, player skills and perks. I am sure that the one-handed skill, for example, would factor into your damage.

Even for base damage there are simply too many unknowns. Like the base stats of weapons, for example >_>

I applaud your enthusiasm, but perhaps it could be better spent somewhere else? Although it is quite fascinating to ponder the system... it works out quite beautifully so that daggers are immensely powerful in sneak attacks but in open-combat two-handed are the way to go. Swords are you rain-or-shine weapon while bow&arrow offers an impressive range at the cost of damage... and all the perks correspond. Neat.

I'm a very peculiar person. If I go with daggers, I'm sticking with daggers, up until the point where I need to grind other skills for levels. Then, I'll just go to old dungeons and kill random enemies until I get the skill boosts I'm looking for and then switch back to daggers. At least it's been confirmed that there are some light helmets that don't cover up your face, so I can have a full suit of light armor that doesn't drive me crazy. And since animal based armors aren't in the smithing tree, I'll be able to make and upgrade them even as a rogue. Perhaps things will still work out after all. Dual daggers should still have the highest attack speed out of any weapon, and with the shadow warrior perk, I can make enemies stop chasing me. I'll probably have to get a warrior companion to serve as my tank, but I think I'll be able to make my build viable after all. But once again, I digress.