Without connecting the timeline of TES too closely with IRL timelines, we can still see that the Reman Empire's fall would break society from its known socio-political order. Without an orderly society, innovation stagnates and knowlege is lost. I'm just curious; How do you guys feel about playing in TES' Dark Ages?

I don't care because the overall "lore" is pointless.

Ouch. As a lover of TES's deep lore, I'm curious as to why you think that. Care to explain?

Unlike my positive 'friend' above you i find it rather intriquing, and i really like your phrase...Dark Ages!

Because its all made up gobblygook precisely to act as back drop to the story being told. It is nothing more than setting, and therefore usually gets changed to meet the benefits of a strong story rather than the other way around. You can see the exact same with every franchise. You can be irrational and deny stuff happened or not accept it (like Star Wars fans and midichlorians) or you come to the realization that it just does not matter.

I must admit I think the term is quite fitting, and is more understandable than "Interregnum".

I'm interested to see how many, if any, parallels there are between their bloody war and some of our own(socially and politically speaking.), along with seeing whatever parallels there are between wars in 2E583 and, say, 4E201

It's a MMORPG, pretty sure story isn't the first and foremost thing the devs have in mind.

These are not Dark Ages. I cannot emphasize that enough. Hell even the Dark Ages were not that Dark. It was just a bunch of idiots in Europe who svcked at record keeping(Gross exaggeration and simplification but more or less true). The rest of the world was fine, relatively speaking. In fact in the middle east they probably experienced their golden age.

The interregnum is just that. An interregnum. If you want real life comparisons to it, look at the Spring and Autumn and Warring States Periods in China. Then mix that with medieval Europe and the immediate end of the Western Roman Empire and you have some kind of similar comparison.

Some stuff on the two periods in China I mentioned.

Such a charmer...pointless to you. If you didn't care you really had no reason to post in the thread. If you don't care for lore, then try not to bring your negativity down on other people in a thread that obviously will have something to do with discussing lore eh? Some people find the setting more important than the story. Myself for instance. Especially in a game series where you tell your own stories.

How did it referring to "dark age" automatically referrence lore? Op asked not one but 2 questions that I have answered. Just like you just pointed out it is pointless "for me" when rationally it should be pointless for everyone, especially the 5% rp playerbase.


Sure it is. Story is conflict, which is what lies at the heart of gameplay.

By the divines. That's blasphemy.

Because that would be the setting wouldn't it? Which is the lore. I mean read the OP, the part right before the question? I bolded it. You then said you don't care. Which adds absolutely nothing to the conversation, in fact is likely to and has derailed the topic because you added flamebait by saying Lore is pointless on top of it. You know that saying, if you have nothing worth saying say nothing at all? That applies here.

Your last sentence makes absolutely no sense at all. Nor is it rational either. You even pointed out it serves as the backdrop for story. What if people want to tell their own stories? The Lore and setting provide context. Obviously you have absolutely zero conception of the value of lore. Whatever, that is your preference. But don't try to imply your view is what other's should share.

Honestly when I saw the thread title I assumed it was another throwback to Daoc, or even possibly some notion to make the game like Dark Souls.


I did not know you were part of the moderation team! Grats! Serious though he asked a question, and in the greater scheme I do not think it honestly matters. The game has not been portrayed to follow the "traditional" dark ages any more than any other fantasy series and I find the idea that this is tied into the greater "tes lore" as pointless. Last I checked I am entitled to my opinion on the matter. I do not see the correlation between what has been so far advertised as "dark ages" at all, so it does not matter.


Internal story (in this case game) backdrop is different from the overarching "Tes" lore many of you seem to worship on these boards. The fact that you appear to be in denial of that fact is midly saddening considering how you and a few others have went on at great length about how certain creaters are rather angry about how the ip is being treated and what not. It rather clearly illustrates my point that this franchise is no different than any other.


So if you see someone pissing into the wind you do not give him advice that doing so only makes him piss on his own shoes? Last I checked that was a rather implied mandate of modern society that you should try an help your fellow man.

No offense but you're the kind of guy who ruined MMO's for everyone. Lore and RP'ing are very important to create a true persistent game. I would bet you're the kind of gamer who never read quest text and jsut plowed through content at a blistering pace.

Personally, I'd like to see the so-called "Dark Age" vary depending on where you go. Much Cyrodiil might be suffering from famine, war, and political chaos, but why does it have to be the same in Morrowind? The Tribunal are at the height of the power, Morrowind should be prosperous. As should Summerset, but hopefully Ayrenn's rule is causing discontent. As Albino Dunmer pointed out, Europe may have suffered in the "Dark Ages", but the rest of the world was fine.

Unless the setting becomes bad, boring, and done a thousand times before. At which the entire setting and story become narratively lazy and pointless. The last two games did not have a strong story at all, which is partially due to how bland the setting could be. Particularly Oblivion (Skyrim was pretty good in many areas). A good setting can lead into a better story (but not always), but a story with a bad setting doesn't really stand a chance. Saying the setting does not matter is like saying a story doesn't matter. I'm not going to have any interest in a boring, terribly written setting anymore than I'll have an interest in a boring, terribly written story. Morrowind was good because Dagoth Ur went with the setting, as did the Tribunal, the Nerevarine, the Great Houses, the Daedra, the Ashlanders, ect. All of those worked together to form a consistent, coherent story. This is in contrast to Alduin, who is like every other bad fantasy villain in terms of personality.

Story and lore are not disconnected.

Let's not pointlessly attack people personally, there is no reason to do so.

Sort of. I think the bigger issue is the difference between "lore" and lets call it "deep lore". Lore in and of itself is important, it is the setting etc. It is very much a must have, it must make sense within itself and it must be consistant within itself. The immediate lore however is a different entity than the grand overarching "deep lore" that many, including the op, is trying to tie it into. And to do that you must sacrifice parts of the story you want to tell to make it fit. This is why every franchise "retcons" things. The immediate story is many times more meaningful, and far more powerful, than the "deep lore" can ever be because far more people care about it and experience it.

But the deep lore is the roots, or the foundation, of the lore. If you just take the most surface elements of the setting and try to make a story out of it, the story will fail. Consider: had Alduin been the kalpa-eater, as he was supposed to be (and still is, I admit, but only in a few sentence of dialogue), you should not only create a more complex, interesting villain, but also one that makes the Nords and their religion come across as much more developed and realistic. Alduin just screaming about how lowly mortals are, and how awesome he is, doesn't create a good villain. Alduin wanting to destroy the world to bring the next is interesting. This version of Mundus is old. Its time is finished, and now it is just standing in the way of the new world. Bethesda considered this, even, as Paarthurnax asks you whether you'd stop the next world from being born. But it isn't tied into the narrative in any meaningful way (heck, it is where I got the idea). Furthereore, perhaps something really bad will happen if the kalpa does not end. All of these creates a more interesting antagonist than some dragon overlord. And the fact that this figure is in Nordic religion makes them, and the setting, more interesting as well.

You shouldn't retcon the good things. If it is bad, and uncreative, than maybe you should. But as Tamriel is, you don't really need to change things. You just need to build from the source.

Except the vast majority of your audience do not care about that. When you watch Star Wars you do not care what a Moff is, or why a lightsaber works. You accept that one is a kind of beaurocrat and one is a weapon and you go from there.

That is small, pretty lore. We're talking about things like the Republic and the Empire. The Jedi and the Force.

Except no one really cares about that either. One is the evil bad guys and the other is whatever mystical magic power that will allow the good guys to win. Yes I realize there is a great deal written on both subjects, they have their own idealogies and Bioware even made me learn about the darkside in several games! But the vast majority do not care about it outside of what they must learn to catch the drift of the story.

You're missing the point. Stories need to be consistent.

Edit: But I'm done arguing this.

...to the casual gamer who prefers to blast through text and smack things with a sword.

Lore is the most important thing. Its the soil which everything else should grow from. It makes the world a living place. It offers the capability to make a good story.

Isn't a bit of a big assumption to say that no one cares about this or that? You seem inclined to talk for a lot of people and throw out one off sweeping statements like no one cares about X or Y. The simple fact is that these games need to cater to a wide degree of tastes. If the game appealed to one generalized demographic it would appeal to no one. Certain aspects of the game are designed for certain players. There are legitimately people who do care about those little things and probably a lot more than you seem to think. Especially when they pick up on something that seems wrong. Countless people always come to lore forums in one way or another asking questions like, I don't understand X or why does Z make Y happen? Because some people do care.

Yet, you seem to undermine that entire fanbase continuously by saying no one likes the things they like or cares about the things they care about. Of course this is all in relation to games. But writing off a section of the fanbase that is inherently more loyal than any other is a foolish idea. Gameplay can be imitated, setting and lore cannot be imitated directly. That is what makes an IP.

What makes you think no one cares about the lore minutia as well as the lore itself? There are a good amount of people who generally want to know how things work. Even going down to minute details and speculation.

That is only noticed though because a big deal was made about it. Even if it weren't you are talking about something that is far ranging and open. Not something as constricted as the Tes lore has become. A vibrant "lore" is only as good as how much freedom it gives you to tell your story. This is why any good dm or writer builds his world as he goes. You do not build everything a head of time as vast amounts of it never get used, or you are forced to change because what you originally intended now no longer fits.

But what we have has the potential to tell a better story. They cut out, or downplay, things to tell a badly written, stereotypical fantasy story. Had the more interesting, unique lore never been around, I'd never have had any interest whatsoever in Tamriel. Before I learned about it, I disregarded the lore, because there wasn't anything interesting upfront. Had the stuff with bland lore been a book, and not a video game where you can get away with with bland story and worldbuilding, it wouldn't have gotten anywhere. The people who don't care about this stuff are the people who don't care about the story, or are unaware of the depth of the lore. As far as they are concerned, Tamriel is just an open-world to have fun in. It doesn't matter to them if Alduin is a Dragon Lord or a kalpa-eater. And there is nothing wrong for enjoying Tamriel as an open-world and not caring about story. But some of us do care about story. And actually, I think most people do, they just don't know about the potential Tamriel actually has.

Edit: But, perhaps it is a bit presumptuous of me to assume no one cares about the story in the last two games.

And it was foolish of me to call the stuff mentioned before petty lore. I take it back.