[Kira! :)))]

migck, I've told stories on multiple occasions about absolutely ridiculous bugs that nobody catches until I discover them months or even years later when revisiting a project. Looks like you found a couple of outstanding ones. Both of those packages are long overdue for updates...

[Helen Quill]

Hi tejon,

With nGCD v2, you no longer need to change iTrainingSkills to 9999, so Progress.ini can be left completely default. You do still need to make the ProgressGSD changes.
Otherwise, those changes are fine, except one thing: due to a bug in the current uncapped calculations, you should open nGCDCalc.ini and double the value of fLevelFactor. The current recommended base value is 0.75, so uncapped this should be 1.5.

I returned the (default) Progress.ini to original and left alone the adjustments I made to the ProgressGSD.ini. In the nGCDCalc.ini I doubled the value of:
'set nGCD.fLevelFactor to 2.0 ; 1.0' (was 'set nGCD.fLevelFactor to 1.0 ; 1.0').
Assuming the nGCD.fLevelFactor is now set correctly nGCD and Progress should function optimally with Elys Uncapper.

This is very strange. In addition to the question of how you've got such a large penalty at game start (it's not nGCd or Progress), attributes shouldn't even be able to show a negative value unless you've got an OBSE mod in place which allows it, and I'm pretty sure Elys Uncapper doesn't, though I could be wrong. Just to be sure, you're not also using JRoush's AVUncapper, are you?
Regardless, 11 is a believable starting score if you haven't picked a class yet. Sounds like nGCD is working correctly, and as long as the number isn't showing in red it should be OK.

I am only using Elys Uncapper, not JRoush's AVUncapper also. No I had not picked a class yet.
The 'Speed' attribute read, "-173(-184)." The '-173' part was in red, the '(-184)' part was black. The difference is 11, aside from the brackets and 'negative values,' which was the starting value of the 'Speed' attribute after I started moving around and checked again. I assume it was "stuck"(?), for lack of better understanding, in a calculation.
Strange, yes, but somehow with the change(s) I made it has not occurred again; wheather it was the changes to the ini(s), some registry cleaning, rebuilding the patch, and/or starting a new game I have not seen it since--all or none of which might have had an effect. I'll say it again, "strange."

With my current game so far everything seems to be running smoothly. I appreciate your help, tejon, thank you.

[XPidgex Jefferson]

I ran into a problem with Armorer's Advantage:

TFC must have been called accidentally because I did not notice a problem until seeing the FPV camera run through the ground. The TFC might have been triggered by See You Sleep. I noticed all this after my character slept for an hour in an inn. I don't know whether or not this error occurred before during or after sleep, however...

Error in script 27000ed8
Attempting to evaluate ] but this operator takes no operands
File: Armorer's Advantage.esp Offset: 0x046F Command:
Error in script 27000ed8
Operator ] failed to evaluate to a valid result
File: Armorer's Advantage.esp Offset: 0x046F Command:
Error in script 27000ed8
An expression failed to evaluate to a valid result
File: Armorer's Advantage.esp Offset: 0x046F Command:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  ScreenEffects.esm02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.0]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]04  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp05  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.3]06  DLCShiveringIsles.esp07  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]08  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.30]09  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.1]0A  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.0]0B  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]0C  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp  [Version 0.7]0D  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp++  Enhanced Water - Nearer Fog.esp++  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 0.2]0E  MIS.esp0F  Distant Chapel Bells.esp10  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.1]11  Cities Alive At Night.esp12  P1DseeYouSleep.esp++  Regrowing Nirnroot - Dissappear Reappear.esp  [Version 1.01]13  Willful Resistance.esp  [Version 4.0]14  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.1]15  Display Stats.esp  [Version 1.3.1]16  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.1]17  kuerteeCleanUp.esp18  Streamline 3.1.esp19  sr_super_hotkeys.esp  [Version 0.54]1A  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp++  RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp**  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp1B  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]1C  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]**  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.0]1D  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.1]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]1E  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]1F  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.43]++  Enhanced Vegetation [100%].esp20  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]21  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]22  SM Encumbrance and Fatigue.esp  [Version 2.6]23  EnchantmentRestore.esp++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp24  StealthOverhaul.esp25  RenGuardOverhaul.esp26  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]27  Armorer's Advantage.esp28  SM Hand Combat.esp  [Version 1.0]29  SMCombatRegen.esp  [Version 1.00]2A  BFG's Enhanced Armory.esp2B  nGCD.esp2C  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp2D  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]2E  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]2F  ProgressRacial.esp30  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]31  Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.esp  [Version 2.0]32  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp**  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp33  Atmospheric Loading Screens - No Text.esp34  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVCore - Limr'l.esp35  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]36  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]37  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_NoSpellLights.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]38  SM Spell Leveling.esp  [Version 2.00]**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp++  Visually Enchanted Fire.esp++  Visually Enchanted Frost.esp++  Visually Enchanted Shock.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.1]39  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

[Glu Glu]

I ran into a problem with Armorer's Advantage:

Unfortunately that's a random issue with no apparent cause. Nothing to do with TFC. It seems that once in a while OBSE just loses track of its arrays. My mods aren't the only ones affected, though they're often the most obvious because many of them process every frame. Armorer's Advantage was actually one of the very first mods where this was observed, and Scruggs and I both went over it with a fine-tooth comb. I've put in all sorts of self-correction so it's usually harmless in the long term. If you're not seeing those messages continuously spamming the console -- i.e. you can enter a command, close and open the console, and there are no new errors below what you typed -- the script has recovered and it's safe to just ignore. If it's happening constantly, you need to save, quit Oblivion completely then reload. Wait five seconds for scripts to initialize, check the console and if it's clear you're OK. Otherwise you'll need to revert to a previous save.

On the upside, these failure states generally result in either the script doing absolutely nothing (e.g. Armorer's Advantage) or a failure so catastrophic you can't miss it (e.g. nGCD). No need to worry about lingering aftereffects.

[Beth Belcher]

Unfortunately that's a random issue with no apparent cause. Nothing to do with TFC. It seems that once in a while OBSE just loses track of its arrays. My mods aren't the only ones affected, though they're often the most obvious because many of them process every frame. Armorer's Advantage was actually one of the very first mods where this was observed, and Scruggs and I both went over it with a fine-tooth comb. I've put in all sorts of self-correction so it's usually harmless in the long term. If you're not seeing those messages continuously spamming the console -- i.e. you can enter a command, close and open the console, and there are no new errors below what you typed -- the script has recovered and it's safe to just ignore. If it's happening constantly, you need to save, quit Oblivion completely then reload. Wait five seconds for scripts to initialize, check the console and if it's clear you're OK. Otherwise you'll need to revert to a previous save.

On the upside, these failure states generally result in either the script doing absolutely nothing (e.g. Armorer's Advantage) or a failure so catastrophic you can't miss it (e.g. nGCD). No need to worry about lingering aftereffects.

That's fine with me. I kept playing with that configuration and everything otherwise seems fine. Now, I have to add in the rest of my game tweaks, and then quests...

[Robert Bindley]

With TES V being announced, I've again gotten back into another go at playing oblivion with mods. Wanted to let you know that I think the bonus to Heavy Armor that orcs get is +20 instead of +10, as I'm getting 50 skill right at creation in it, where as armorer which is also +10 is at 40 skill.

Edit: Nevermind, forgot I could look at it in the construction set and it is set at +10. Time to figure out what's adding that extra 10 to the skill then.

[Sunnii Bebiieh]

I have created for my own use little spreadsheet to see how various values of progress ini would influence my game mainly because I was not happy how the progression went and wanted to alter the values in more sensible way (for my tastes that is). I saved it in open office format so hopefully it works:

http://rapidshare.com/files/440263319/progress_lookup.ods

Basically above are all basic settings influencing overall skill level rate along with the XP each use of skill nets you. Default values are vanilla including skill XP (0,6 which is value for restoration in vanilla). You can set how class skills, minor skills and specialization skills are handled and below is how much uses (NOT xp) are needed in order to advance to skill level in far left column. Class skills start at level 25 (minimum class skill can be), others at level 5.

For instance using Progress default settings I have found out that you would have to run for full 29 hours (real time) in order to reach level 100 in athletics if it's neither class nor specialization skill. Something over 8 hours if you also swim at it. Just try it yourself and you will see.

The reason why I created this was that leveling skills curve seemed to me a little too steep forcing player to artificially level his skills (=facehug in sneak behind someone's back) instead of level them by regular use (=sneaking only when you want to avoid detection) which is the immersion killer for me. I wanted to know what would be best value to change so I created the spreadsheet. For me it seems decreasing the curve directly (decreasing the exponent) would do the trick I want rather than basic slowdown or xp gained by use of skill (which I thought before I did this).

So that's about it. Enjoy!

[Danny Warner]

Since I am using EE's value-based merc leveling, I am supposed to set the merc factor to 0 in Progress, or am I supposed to change something in nGCD's files? It's been a while since I have had to change these INI files...

[Chris BEvan]

http://rapidshare.com/files/440263319/progress_lookup.ods

I'm seeing odd errors with the formulas in that spreadsheet ('$' everywhere), and even after fixing that and converting the numbers to U.S. format the calculations aren't working. I wonder if it's a localization conflict, or RapidShare just messed up the file somehow? I see how it's supposed to work, thougn, and it looks like a great tool. Maybe it'll work if you import it to the Google Docs spreadsheet tool?

You might want to rename it "Oblivion skill advancement spreadsheet," because all of those settings in Progress are directly mapped to settings in the Oblivion CS... within the main Progress.esm, I don't introduce any new calculations. (The exponent you changed is straight from Vanilla, too.)

EE's value-based merc leveling

Leave everything as-is with Progress and nGCD. Just don't install ProgressMercantile.

[yessenia hermosillo]

I'm seeing odd errors with the formulas in that spreadsheet ('$' everywhere), and even after fixing that and converting the numbers to U.S. format the calculations aren't working. I wonder if it's a localization conflict, or RapidShare just messed up the file somehow? I see how it's supposed to work, thougn, and it looks like a great tool. Maybe it'll work if you import it to the Google Docs spreadsheet tool?

You might want to rename it "Oblivion skill advancement spreadsheet," because all of those settings in Progress are directly mapped to settings in the Oblivion CS... within the main Progress.esm, I don't introduce any new calculations. (The exponent you changed is straight from Vanilla, too.)


Leave everything as-is with Progress and nGCD. Just don't install ProgressMercantile.

Cool.


Thanks for the quick reply.
- Tomlong75210

[Alexandra Ryan]

2tejon: Figured it out. The problem was localization of my MS Office... Anyway:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtMLVHQaeHKxdEpjek9nQTllX0pqekZsY2Z2RDNzWUE&hl=en&authkey=CMKGy7sO

[Bryanna Vacchiano]

                       MYTH                        ^                    Mysticism             Illusion   |  ConjurationAETHER  <             --+--             >  VOID           Destruction  |  Restoration                    Alteration                        v                     REALITY

[Fam Mughal]

tejon, in a setup balanced with omobs is there benefit in using ProgressSBSP?

[Russell Davies]

                       MYTH                        ^                    Mysticism             Illusion   |  ConjurationAETHER  <             --+--             >  VOID           Destruction  |  Restoration                    Alteration                        v                     REALITY

Hmm, I can't see Thaumaturgy there, bad bad bad...
But since I assume this is from Ars Gratia Artaeum, despite any obscure magic domain system, I will say I eagerly await the first magic overhaul to take advantage of OBME.

[Andrew Tarango]

2tejon: I have a question. How (in)compatible is your latest Anyclass with GotNoClass? I mean I quite like the idea of not gaining extra boost at the start but also that one's class, spec and favourite attributes change afterwards based on how one plays (what skills he uses). Would this work?

1) Start game with Immidiate char gen
2) Choose "no class" class
3) Start AnyClass via console

Some of the starting class skills will have to be at 5 then so which ones get chosen? And more importantly will the second choose class screen given by Baurus break things or is that handled as ineffective by Immediate char gen?

Thanks!

Btw. Have you checked that Google spreadsheet I linked above yet?

[Kelly John]

tejon, in a setup balanced with omobs is there benefit in using ProgressSBSP?

Absolutely. Daggers are still faster than claymores with OMOBS, and since experience is per hit, that means daggers level you up far more quickly. That's what SBSP addresses.

Hmm, I can't see Thaumaturgy there, bad bad bad...

Hehe, hard to know where to put it. Is it the same as Mysticism? Does it belong dead center? I'm not adding any new skills, so I'm sticking with the default six schools and I've decided not to rename them. But my reevaluation of where to put each magic effect does include some re-investigation of Daggerfall, so there may be echoes of Thaumaturgy after all...

How (in)compatible is your latest Anyclass with GotNoClass?

Didn't actually test this until now... turns out they're fully compatible. As you said, you need to select the blank class at character generation then use the StartQuest AdoptAnyclass console activation. You can do this immediately, though be warned that nGCD and Skill Decay both assume a minimum of 25 for class skills and +5 for specialization. This shouldn't really hurt anything, you'll just suffer no decay to class skills until they exceed that minimum, and nGCD will calculate level 1 (with no progress) until you've gained 175 skill points. Low skills rise fast, but it'll still take a little while. That's the only downside I see, really.

Edit: ShowClassMenu doesn't appear to let you keep the Anyclass-adjusted blank class, you have to select the genuine blank again. This resets your skills. I assume the same will be true of Baurus, so best to wait until you've spoken with him to activate Anyclass.

If you're playing a race with less than 7 bonus skills, you'll get Combat skills filling any extra class slots, in alphabetical order. For the vanilla races, this usually means you get Armorer until you raise something else to 6. Nords already have Armorer, so they get Athletics. Orcs have Armorer and only 5 bonus skills, so they get Athletics and Blade. With TRAP, all races have 7 skills except Argonians (who, again, will get Armorer). Don't know about RBP's class skills.

Btw. Have you checked that Google spreadsheet I linked above yet?

No... actually, I just assumed it worked since you'd figured out the localization issue. Personally, I've done all that math a thousand times over. Definitely a good tool for anyone who wants to play with the defaults, tho.

[Jacob Phillips]

Didn't actually test this until now... turns out they're fully compatible. As you said, you need to select the blank class at character generation then use the StartQuest AdoptAnyclass console activation. You can do this immediately, though be warned that nGCD and Skill Decay both assume a minimum of 25 for class skills and +5 for specialization. This shouldn't really hurt anything, you'll just suffer no decay to class skills until they exceed that minimum, and nGCD will calculate level 1 (with no progress) until you've gained 175 skill points. Low skills rise fast, but it'll still take a little while. That's the only downside I see, really.

Edit: ShowClassMenu doesn't appear to let you keep the Anyclass-adjusted blank class, you have to select the genuine blank again. This resets your skills. I assume the same will be true of Baurus, so best to wait until you've spoken with him to activate Anyclass.

If you're playing a race with less than 7 bonus skills, you'll get Combat skills filling any extra class slots, in alphabetical order. For the vanilla races, this usually means you get Armorer until you raise something else to 6. Nords already have Armorer, so they get Athletics. Orcs have Armorer and only 5 bonus skills, so they get Athletics and Blade. With TRAP, all races have 7 skills except Argonians (who, again, will get Armorer). Don't know about RBP's class skills.

I have an issue to report unfortunately. Without AnyClass my level is 1 with just nGCD and GotNoClass however when I activate AnyClass my level goes to 65532. I use TIE which does not use many leveled lists but it does for instance use leveled loot I believe and thus I wonder if this level is actually taken into account or is it just "display error". Changing it to 1 works until I reload so it's not a viable option.

[KiiSsez jdgaf Benzler]

Without AnyClass my level is 1 with just nGCD and GotNoClass however when I activate AnyClass my level goes to 65532.

You missed an nGCD update. This is fixed by the bounds-checking I added in http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14065.

[Leticia Hernandez]

You missed an nGCD update. This is fixed by the bounds-checking I added in http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14065.

Thx!!

[Thema]

Hi Tejon,
1. I still am having problems figuring out how to make ngcd and progress work with Elys Uncapper. Remember the 'strange' occurance of negative values for the "Speed" attribute. Well, when running backwards the "Speed" attribute will read a negative red value and negative black value with a difference equal to the current "Speed" attribute, which will return to read the normal blue after running forward. I don't know if the above is actually causing or is related to any other bugs, but there is more.
2. Using any item which increases speed, ie amulet, or boots of speed will increase my characters level, and if unequipped leveling will stop working ('progress to next level bar' will 0 out while all other bars remain active yet do not have an effect on the progress bar, level does not return to value before the item was equipped, nor does my level increase any further after).
3. Striking an npc with a glass sword sword enchanted with Runeskull of blade skill 1 (absorb strength on strike etc.) will exact the same effect as occurs above in statement 2.
These are the 'bugs' I know of. Are these correctable? Or is it some incompatiblity issue?

[Zosia Cetnar]

Playing with Birthsigns Expanded, with the Serpent birthsign, when something dies from Serpent Sting my game crashes. This occurs even while Birthsigns Expanded is the only mod in my load order, and (having done a little testing) occurs even when my soul hunger is greater than the amount it would be reduced by the death.

[Riky Carrasco]

Well, when running backwards the "Speed" attribute will read a negative red value and negative black value with a difference equal to the current "Speed" attribute, which will return to read the normal blue after running forward.

This has nothing to do with Elys Uncapper; you've got a very old No Backwards Running mod installed. I recommend replacing it with http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32651. (That mod includes several other tweaks, but they're all optional.) If you don't see any such mod in your load order, it may be bundled with an overhaul -- I know Francesco's still includes one of those, OOO might until next version. No idea about TIE. If that's the case you'll have to disable the script, either at the console or using TES4Edit; get details on the related threads.

The fortify/absorb issue should be fixed in the latest version. Verify that you have http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14065?

when something dies from Serpent Sting my game crashes.

I'll check this out.

[Ross]

Hi Tejon,

The fortify/absorb issue should be fixed in the latest version. Verify that you have v2.1.1?

I am using nGCD_v2_02-14065.7zip, and Progress 2.2 (Progress_OBSE-0018-pre-14304). (?)

This has nothing to do with Elys Uncapper; you've got a very old No Backwards Running mod installed.

Major mods I am using are OOO, MMM, Fran, WarCry, Cobl. Not using TIE. I will check out the other threads for the backwards running fix.

[Chloe Botham]

I am using nGCD_v2_02

You should definitely upgrade to 2.1.1.

[des lynam]

Hi Tejon,
I am ugrading from nGCD v2.02 to 2.1.1. Using Progress 2.2, and Elys Uncapper. In the previous version 2.02, I changed the fLevelFactor as per your suggestion:

due to a bug in the current uncapped calculations, you should open nGCDCalc.ini and double the value of fLevelFactor. The current recommended base value is 0.75, so uncapped this should be 1.5.

Other changes I made:
Adjusted ProgressGSD ini as per the ProgressGSD ini readme:
set ProgressGSD.iRangeCeiling to 4200
set ProgressGSD.iSkillMax to 200

I adjusted as per the nGCD ini readme:
set nGCD.bSimpleUncap to 1

In the current v2.1.1, I could not find fLevelFactor. I assume the bug was fixed, but are there changes to be made otherwise?