I've only been playing this series since Morrowind, the original version, and I enjoyed reading the books in the game, and delving into the dwemer ruins. And moreso now with Skyrim, and seeing the amazing shifts in design... Makes me curious if they're basing the "visual update" on a game related reason: the dwarves in Morrowind built things a little differently than in Skyrim, maybe?

But it really got me thinking, and I started reading MORE, and really listening in to the quests concerning the ruins in Skyrim. And I've come up with a startling person theory: Bethesda, I believe, is actually trying to make the dwarves to be a little more advanced versions of... Well... US... Real live humans, in 2012. I mean, seriously, LOOK at what they've done, LOOK at what they've built, how they acted. I'm sure they even had vehicles, because if they can make those centurions that roll around (I SOOOO want one in this game as a bodyguard), surely they made vehicles to roll around in? But seriously, it got me thinking, after doing the quest to discern the location of the Staff og Magnus, that the dwarves were getting into some things they really should't've, messing with things better left untouched. And look at us today, are we not, in a way, doing the same? Shall we find some lost god's heart, and annihilate ourselves (or, as I personally think happened, move ourselves to a realm as yet undiscovered and untouchable by normal means, or magical means) all in the name of Science?

Just something to think about next time you're running around those ruins, reading all those books, and doing those quests. If it wasn't evident that they were rather nasty people (as proven by their treatment of the Falmer), I'd almost admire them. And I'm sure everyone has wondered what REALLY happened to them, and since the "Summon Arniel's Shade" is glitched, I guess we'll never know. But these things are just something to think about...

Definately food for thought!

Personally I apoint the the major difference in building style between the dwemner of Skyrim and Morrowind (the island Varrdanfal anyway). Is the geology , in skyrim you have hard stone mountains (like Granite ) so that is why the dwemner ruins of skyrim are Much larger and actually some are carved right into the mountains themselves, like markarth. The geology of Morrowind is much more unsatble cause or red mountain being an active volcano. So the ruins in morrowind were smaller in depth and built more like the hallways in a submarine. Especially in how the doors looked in morrowind , more like sealed hatches like in a sub.

True there is a point in they way the dwemner are doings things that seam to relate to things that we do that may be beyond our understanding. But the difference is they were using the heart of lorkan it there ultimate attempt to be there own or create there own gods. What we do in the name of scinece (for the most part) is for the betterment of mankind. I know the whole idea of splitting the atom was first for weapons, but now we use that science to power homes and in turn could even take us to the stars. In this case humans were not defying God , not sure he likes nuclear weapons. To me it all matters on what we do with the knowledge we attain. Most if not all artifacts that relate to whoever god you worship are placed in museums, shrines and are heavily protected and hopefully will remain that way.

Yes the falmer in the way they were treated can compare to slavery. To the falmer it was Far worse. Slaves while a travesty that mankind should never forget. The Falmer were basically neighbors that despritly needed help from the Nords wraith and used that need and turned them into slaves , by forcing them to become blind. When you look at the falmer now they are a complete mess of what they once were , Especially after playing through the Dawnguard questline.

Science only asks whether we can do a thing. Rarely does it ponder whether we should.

The Dwemer forced the Snow Elves to eat certain mushrooms that made them go mad and blind, over the centuries their eyes would atrophy and in the end new borns would be born without eyes as part of evolution in the enviroment they live in which is mostly pitch dark. The snow elves you meet in DG DLC say that the Falmer are starting to just show some kind of inteligence after all this time and some kind of sembalance of hirearchy. Could it be possible they are going to try and relcaim what was taken from them in the past by the Dwemer and the Nords ? Or could they some how revert back to what they use to be?

Don't have Dawnguard yet, my old xbox doesn't have the space for it, just hafta wait for the new one to come in.

But think about it, though, doesn't a lot of what the dwarves did seem smiliar to what we're doing, or trying to do?

I'm not saying it IS, just that its an interesting idea, and something to think about next to go running from the OMGSTEAMCENTURION that is much harder to beat in this game than in Oblivion... (which, btw, you can sneak past those guys, which is a really good idea.. I haven't tangled with one yet, and I'm afraid to!)

Come to think of it... Doesn't Earth have some strange, bioluminescent 'shrooms in caves? (stay away from the 'shrooms)

And I saw the statue of old Falmer... They look really neat, and if they DO regain intelligence (despite the glowing mushrooms), that thought rather scares me. They're not exactly easy to kill, and if they were to band together.... Well, I'm thinking the Nords may need to find a new home... Yet again......

I have yet to read anything that doesn't suggest that the Falmer didn't deserve it. For all we know it may have been payback. Why were the Dwemer underground to begin with? Did the ancient Falmer chase them down there?

To the OP, there are many civilizations on earth that are now gone, just about on every continent. I don't think it's because they played with god hearts though. I don't think any civilization is meant to last forever.

An even worse thought: a newly-intelligent Falmer forming an alliance with the Thalmor. Both have a serious beef with the Nords. At least the Psyjics took the Eye, or we would have another Saarthal situation on our hands.

Again I say that I wasn't IMPLYING that we are like the dwarves, just bringing up the idea that Bethsda could be hinting at it, and at the very least, the idea of it is interesting.

As far as I'm aware, there isn't any reason for them to BE underground (the dwarves), but if you read up on Falmer in Skyrim, it even SAYS that the Falmer had NOTHING to do with the dwarves (that has been released, I'll amend that) until AFTER the defeat of the Snow Prince, at which time they went to the dwemer and asked for asylum. Which was given, but the dwarves enslaved the falmer, forcing them to eat the mushrooms native to the underground caves, which eventually made them go blind (in addition to being in those dark caves). It does talk about the wars where the falmer rose up against the dwarves (suddenly I'm reminded of the "humans" turning against the Ayleids in Cyrodiil), and they faught a long, bitter war. It does tell that the day the dwarves disappeared, the falmer went to the battlefield, and were surprised to find all the dwarves gone, so they retreated into the caves, and took over the cities for their own; but the war had been so long, and so bitter, that it twisted more than just their minds and spirits.

Falmer have a beef with ANYONE, and really anything... Curtesy of that war they waged against the dwarves... Which seems to have become such a racial thing that they probably have a racial trait +10 vs humanoids....

And actually, come to think of it, they'd probably hate the altmer MORE than the Nords; if you follow the Hermaeus Mora quest in Skyrim, you're getting the blood of the Mer (which has Orc in it... Orsinimer... Food for thought again), and since it IS of dweMER make (the box), it would follow suit (to my way of thinking) that Falmer would in fact hate ALL elf races... never mind the fac that they themselves are elves.....

Good points. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the purpose of harvesting the elf blood because, combined, it would be a substitute for a lack of Dwemer blood, which was ultimately required?

The Falmer hate everyone, that's certain. However, if they tried to overrun the Nords, they would eventually have to face the Thalmor who would see the situation as an opportunity to further weaken an already weakened empire--at least in Skyrim. If the Falmer were gaining intelligence, and it's debatable about how intelligent they may be getting, it would make good tactical sense to align themselves, even temporarily, with the Thalmor to defeat the Nords. Assuming the Nords are defeated (crossing fingers for a return of Ysgrammor--or an avatar of Shor), the Thalmor and the Falmer would eventually slug it out for dominance.

Just my 2 cents.

No, the quest even said it would take ALL mer blood, and I think because the dwemer built it, they already have their blood on it (eww)

And I understand what you're saying about the Falmer, that alone makes for some serious food for thought. However, I could just as easily see the Thalmor re-enslaving the falmer (since they're pretty scatter-brained right now, depsite the "assistants" they have in Blackreach), or making a false alliance with them, defeat the other races, then take over and dominate the Falmer...


I REALLY hate those Thalmor.... Spineless lick-spittles.....

From the Elder Scrolls Wiki (for some reason, I am not able to post the link. Just look up the Discerning the Transmundane page):

"Upon returning to Septimus, he confesses that Dwemer blood is needed to open the Lexicon. Since the Dwemer are extinct, blood from the Mer races of Skyrim must be collected to recreate it."

Interestingly, I read somewhere that the Oghma Infinium cover is made from the skin of all Mer races.

My bad...... I stand corrected.... Its been a while since I'd done it, though, and my memory has more holes than swiss cheese..


And again I will ask of this: Orcs, MER?!? I know they're from Orsinium, and are considered Orsimer, but I don't recall them having pointy ears in past games.

And where you read about the book was from the description in the game... Or the guide, I forgot, but yeah, I read it too... And when you spin it around, you can tell... it made me shudder just thinking about it....

Falmer: saviors of Tamriel. Hired out to massacre the Thalmor forever, releasing the Empire from their destructive grasps, in exchange the falmer get all underground lairs in Morrowind (or whats left that isnt filled with lava after the Red Year).

Now that has potential....

Haha. Yeah, not sure the Dunmer would appreciate that very much--Nords to the west, Argonians to the south, and Falmer under their feet.

The way I understand it, Morrowind isn't (or wasn't) livable after that Red Year. So who knows if anyone still LIVES there...