This is more of a lore based question based off the trailer, but was I the only one that thought that Tiber Septim was the first dragonborn?

I mean, when you talk to the Greybeards, its mentioned that they've been guiding dragonborns since Talos was walking around as a mortal. But he only shows up near the end of 2E, and the Dragon Wars were (I'm assuming) well before even 1E.

You are not alone, I thought the exact same thing to be true. Immediately when I heard "he was the first Dragonborn" in the trailer, I thought they were referring to Talos. This cannot be true, however, because Talos did not rule over Solstheim or devour dragon souls at the will of Hermaeus Mora. I am stumped...

nope, nowhere did it ever state he was the first Dragonborn. it was just assumed based off of established evidence. plus, the trailer indicates that he was apart of the Dragon Priests (perhaps he went rogue at some point), which predate Tiber Septim.

Even before this DLC he wasn't the first. St. Allesia was supposedly the first. Talos was simply the most famous.

The first *known* Dragonborn referred to by Imperial historians was Alessia, who found the first Cyrodiilic Empire. That was long before Tiber came along.

Reman Cyrodiil, who founded the second Cyrodiilic Empire, was hailed as Dragonborn by the Akaviri invaders, who agreed to serve him for that reason.

Prior to Alessia you're getting back into an era of that predates most written history, and one that Imperial scholars would know little about and probably not care much about either, given that their natural and understandable bias would be to focus on their predominance in everything.

I don't know why you came to that conclusion. It's clear he wasn't the first when you read up on lore surrounding the Amulet of Kings.

Also, MOST (though not all) TES lore is developed in in game books from an in universe perspective, not from an out-of-universe perspective (like, say, Tolkien's Simarilion). This means that in game books can (and likely do) contain mistakes. Essentially, it gives them a fair bit of wiggle room.

Technically the first was St. Allesia, seeing as the Dragonborn powers didn't exist until Kyne gave the power of the thu'um to St Allesia..

It clearly states that he was the first dragonborn. There is no way bethesda is keeping Alessia as the first after making this new boss man to be the first.

I was going to get around to it eventually...

Which I just did. Which makes me even more confused.

According to that, St. Alessia was the first dragonborn. The antagonist of that dlc can't be her...

....could it?

Er...no. Kyne didn't give the power of the Thu'um to St. Alessia, she gave it to the people of Skyrim so they could use it to overthrow the Dragon Cult. That was during the Dragon Wars of the Merethic Era. Alessia wasn't around until the third century of the First Era, and was Dragonborn because of the pact she made with Akatosh.

And use of the Thu'um does not make one a Dragonborn, nor does being Dragonborn give one the ability to use it without exposure to the necessary knowledge. Most of Dragonborn rulers of the Empire never had either the knowledge or ability, and most users of the Thu'um weren't Dragonborn. Use of it in combat seems to have been common among the ancient Nord heroes and rulers, they were still using it as late as 1E 700 as the battle of Red Mountain. The only reason it became uncommon was because Jurgen Windcaller's "pacifist" philosophy came to the fore after that and use of the Thu'um among people other than the Greybeards faded away.

when they said he was the first they probably meant he came before you

Ya'll got some of your lores mixed up.

Nords with the Thu'um have existed before the first Era. Source: Greybeard conversation ("The Voice was a gift of Kyne at the dawn of time")

The "First Dragonborn" Was Saint Alessia, who later became Empress of the First Cyrodiilic Empire of Tamriel, which later gave rise to the tyranny of the Alessian Hegemony. After the Alessian Hegemony Fell (Rislav the Rightous, Date unknown because of the Dragon Break), the Second Cyrodiilic Empire of the Remans came to Power, which ended in the 2920th year of the First Era. The Third Cyrodiilic Empire, founded by Tiber Septim rose approximately 830 Years later, which began the Third Era, year Augt. (Source: Book of the Dragonborn, Rislav the Rightous, 2920: The Last Year of the First Era, A Brief History of the Empire)

Dragonborn (The Dragon Blood) was originally used to give word to the Covenant between Akatosh and St. Alessia, which sealed the barrier between Mundus and Oblivion. Without the ability to call upon the limitless Daedric Hordes, the Daedra-worshiping Aylieds fell to the Alessian slave rebellion. (Source: Song of Pelinel Vol. 1-8)

What is unclear though, and this echos true in our own world, is what is "True" and what is simply a case of "Truth as written by the victor". This is why I'm not so hung up on Lore as other people, as having organic and occasionally even "Incorrect" lore, actually adds to the legitimacy of the world of The Elder Scrolls, insomuch as people that write history are as prone to fallacy and self-interest as any other person. It could very well be that the "Dragonborn" phenomenon existed long before Alessia, and she simply used the divine inspiration of the story to fuel the rebellion itself.

Nah, otherwise they wouldnt call him the first... cause unless he is the first one, hes not the first!

Actually, there is no assertion St Alesia was the first Dragonborn. However, in the book of Dragonborn, it is expressed as a "divine mystery" and I think that sums it up fairly well. The Dragonborn is defined, by the grey beards, as one who has the soul of a dragon given to him by Akatosh as a gift for some purpose. In the case of the Emperors it was to light and maintain the dragon fires. However, it is impossible to know whether one is dragon born until one actuates this gift. Therefore, it is difficult to know if it is from birth or given, how many dragonborns there are total, and so on. It is entirely possible that there were several dragonborns prior to Alesia that were never recorded or the records of which have been destroyed.

Perhaps we're going to be introduced to NEW lore. Perhaps it'll explain how this came to be... Perhaps Alessia wasn't the first and they'll explain that in the new DLC.

With the DLC announcement, St. Alessia is really not the first Dragonborn anymore. The legends of the Nords suggest that people with Dragonborn abilities have been around before 1E.

This could also be true. If you think about it, if your character wouldn't have killed or even encountered Mulmunir, likely the Greybeards would have never known if you were a Dragonborn or not.

Maybe he's the 'black sheep' of the dragonborn heritage that no one likes to talk about. Perhaps he was Akatosh's first, ended up being a BIG mistake, so he gave Alessia the ability.

Sometimes I wonder who knows more about the TES lore, the Beth crew, or the fans...

I wonder if the guys in Beth have to take some sort of 'lore history' test before being able to jump onboard.

I was ninja'ed while creating my thread so I repost my theories here

My candidates...

The Greedy Man. This Skaal legendary evil character was somehow linked to the one they called "Thartaag the World-Devourer". Moreover, greediness could refer to his thirst for Dragon souls and power.

Jhunal. This antic and forgotten Nord God was related to knowledge, and said to have invented mathematics and language. While mathematics belong to Herma-Mora's Realm, "having invented language" might be a deformed account of his instinctive ability to understand one particular language, namely the Dragon tongue. Which is one of the characteristic feature of a Dovahkin.

Yglar. Ysgramor's second son. The http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Songs_of_the_Return,_Vol_2 tell us that "Ylgar, the younger, was possessed of an unwavering spirit that drove his singular prowess to overwhelming feats in war." Maybe it refers to Thu'um? Since Ysgramor was often an opponent of Herma-Mora, it would be a delightful vengeance from Herma-Mora to turn his last son into an ally.

The Snow Prince. Cause this guy once ruled Solstheim.

Shalidor. His creation of Winterhold by "a breath" might be a clue he mastered the Thu'um.

Divayth Fyr. Because this guy is [censored]ing awesome!

Dagooth Ur. Maybe it would explain why he wore a mask, why Septius Signus thought that the lockbox contained the heart of a God, and why there seem to be ascended sleepers in Apocrypha.

Aevar Stone-Singer.

Miraak. Some guy we don't know anything about. Maybe an ancient Atmoran king?

Morihaus. That guy wasn't named the Breath-of-Kyne for no reason.

Pelinal.

The builder of the Skyforge

Shor

Wulfarth

Ysmir

Alandro Sul

NO WHERE IN THE LORE... did it say that Alessia or Tiber Septim was the first Dragonborn

-Alessia was the first Dragonborn emperor
-Tiber Septim came after her so it was NEVER him
-BOOM



http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421164-official-dragonborn-dlc-lore-discussion/

Dragonborn was originally used to describe the blessing of Alessia by Akatosh. Historically, she is the first Dragonborn, but there's no reason why there couldn't have been earlier Dragonborn. It's semantics right now, what citizens of Tamriel consider "Dragonborn" could in fact, not be the whole picture. Sort of like Orcs, being a mid-merethic Beast Race as well as the Cursed pariahs of the Trinimac-Boethia fight.

Personally don't see Jhunal as a candidate, he became Julianos in the Nine Divines pantheon.