You dont use enchanting and smithing but do you use enchanted gear you find ?
Did you upgrade you weapons at the smith with or without using a potion of smithing you bought ?
Do you drink dmg pots for your archery ?

If you said yes to even one thing then dont argue about destro using potions to boost dmg.
If you said no too all of them your then your either playing on adept or lower or just dont know what we are talking about.
And if your talking about 1 hitting low level mobs with sneak crits then gtfo.

Its only balanced for master when you're using an offensive skill other than destro.

in which case, get farming thows potions and slap that bow on...oh and stack enchanting.

W/o enchanting to add 1h damage I'm at 100+ damage with each of my weapons. I don't g think bethesda expected us to (ab)use all 3, but expected us to use atleast one to strengthen ourselves. I'm pretty happy with my damage. Mages problem is that they are too squishy.

No alchemy, no upgrades. Just plain old bow and arrow. Same with my warrior build. Fact is, destruction doesn't scale well. Which is made even weirder since NPC destruction spells do scale. Ive yet to even mess with smithing. I'll take it your the one that doesn't know what hes talking about. On higher levels, even on Expert difficulty destruction turns into a spam fest.

Destruction is no different than onehand, two hand, or archery. Its a primary damage dealing skill. Several things together make destruction unbalanced, at higher levels. and not as good as the other primary damage dealing skills. This has been proven many times. Not sure why fan boys are still trying to defend it.

I keep telling him this. The same goes for conjuration, sneak, and illusion.

He doens't get that other skill don't need to game the system so hard or depend purely on other skills - and can just play smoothly on Master like a TES game, not an MMO.




Same here. My warrior is doing wonderfully on master without any abuse or enchanting or potion farming or weapon switching. And on the plus side I have way more survivability since I was able to put most points into HP.

Your post proves only that you read the 32k backstab thread, actualy I dont even believe you have a high level archer or mage/destro build. Go back play your exploited meele gameplay and have fun nobody forcing you into a destro build.

Proper mages aren't all that squishy. They perked into altertaion to get the 80% damage reducing spell - which armor caps you as much as dragonplate will, and also absorb/resist magic from said alteration perks

Someone on top of you? You have paralysis. Oh and where are your summons? Why aren't you staggering with destro? No Invis? You honestly thought playing a mage in this game was literally destro only?

You have no right to be in a "balance" discussion if you beleive that.

Peace kiddo

Add more useful Master level spells.

Problem solved.

Scale destruction like it scales for the NPCs, problem also solved. Bring back weakness spells, problem solved. Lots of ways to solve this simple problem.

I can kill a dragon faster with no crafting, than an archer or melee character can.

So your saying your not upgraded your bow, didnt enchant for more dmg and didnt drink any archery pots. Best bow i found in the wiki did 25dmg but lets go with 40 dmg and add 25 dmg from arrows ( all deadric )

With the skills you got 100% more dmg so your doing 40x2+25=105dmg a shot and one shooting everyone.
Could my dual cast thounderbolt doing 200 dmg a hit and stagering enemies ( disintegrade kills anyone below 20% hp ) one shot kill those same enemies ?

Is that possible or do you get fee 10x dmg just for choosing archer over mage ?

My lvl 19 breton's conjured bow does over 85 damage

I can move with my bow. I can get off more shots with my bow while lightning storm is still charging up. If I'm sneaking, I get even more damage, If the enemy moves out of the way, your whole casting of LS was a waste. Destruction in games and the lore is stronger than weapons, even enchanted ones. Beth obviously made an oversight on destruction magic at higher levels. This is known. Plenty of thread with facts backing it up. The only thing the defenders can say is "Your using it wrong", or "use more than just destruction". When they don't seem to understand that the other primary damaging skills do not suffer the same as destruction.

The funniest thing is half the fan boys (not naming any names) that are saying we don't need balance now, are the same ones before release going on and on about balance and how this and that should be removed for balance. What a bunch of hypocrites.

Lightning storm isn't a good spell, that just happened to be the video. You can't shoot a bow faster than a destruction spell, incinerates/ice spears/thunderbolts fire of 1 per second much faster than a bow. Can move while casting them too. Ice spears fly completely straight, straighter than an arrow, and thunderbolts are sniper rifles. Firebolts fly similar to ice spears except they have a little swirl.

I'm using it, since that's the example he used. They are all weaker though, and the long casting time, weaker damage output, and the immobility of master spells makes them inferior to their damage dealing skill counterparts. The examples you use are way weaker, and unless your exploiting free casting, become impractical.

The best way to fix the problem is giving us back one of the many things they took away from us, Spell Making.

However, there is no way for us console users to get a fix because Bethesda will never fix it or admit it was a mistake to remove spell making.

Bottom line is that Bethesda screwed the mages by not allowing the spells to level up with the character and further screwed them by removing spell making. They wanted the mages to be nerfed and they suceeded.

I can move with my thunderbolt and I can shot it as fast as your bow. Nice of you to mention LS to seam like your better in every way but your not really.
Your argument was that your oneshoting everyone on your way so that implies you arent using sneak or criticals becuase you cant be sneaky all the time and critical happen only so often yet your saying your just doing this things. Taking it all slow and easy we can get only one conlusion your argument just got invalidated by yourself.



The funny thing is how blinded meele [censored] are saying its pretty ok for them (meele) too use 3 crafting skill and exploits to kill fast (or else they would kill on the same level as destro ) yet using any (even one) of the 3 crafting skills and god forbind any enchanted gear or bows on a destro mage is blashpemy to god himself.



I used thunderbolt for the example betwen archery and destro dont post desinformation.

No, that's not the problem at all.

No he didn't that response you posted quoted him saying thunderbolt and you said lightning storm.

And no firebolts are way stronger than any non-crafted non-critical arrow. And they are very practical examples even without any crafting whatsoever. Can kill an ancient dragon without using a mana potion faster than you could with a non-crafted bow. I have no idea how overpowered a bow can be with all crafted advantages, but without any crafting it doesn't stand a chance.

I never once said I one shotted anything. I said that archery, and one/two handed weapons, with all things being equal and no crafting skills, destruction is worse, damage wise. Your complete lack of logic, common sense, and putting words in my mouth, pretty much shows your grasping for straws at this point. And what the hell is 'meele'?




Then his argument is even that more invalid and worse, since lightning bolt is terrible and worse than LS at higher levels, damage wise.

You only need enchanting for destruction to be able to steamroll through everything. As long as you have 0 cost spells and impact it really doesn't matter if you are doing 2k TBolts or 500 TBolts, the enemy will be stagger locked the entire time and unable to fight back.

Alchemy, smithing and anything else is completely optional. They just make things go faster not easier. As soon as you can stagger a mob every second for as long as you please there is no longer anything challenging in the game other than pressure plates.

You're getting way too worked up over this for one. Simply because someone doesn't believe destruction doesn't need "balancing" doesn't mean they are a "fan boy".
You're just making generalizations and making yourself lose more foundation in your own argument by making those kind of ludicrous statements. "I'm right and everyone
who doesn't agree with me is a _______!"

Magic is all about utility, how you use it, and how it affects the target. 2 of the main "elements" of Destruction focus on dealing "damage" to other aspects of enemies such
as magicka and stamina. This is called utility- it is not something to be compared to DPS as it does much more than that. I've seen videos of a Level 25ish thief running
around one shotting final bosses with dual daggers of woe on Master, but that's just something other people to complain about.

Warriors are the best at melee, thieves are the best at assassinations with knives, rogues are the best with archery, mages are the best with magic. All in all they get
the job DONE and have different perks. Simply comparing them on damage alone does not justify these builds- it's cookie cutter MMO logic, and it simply does not apply
to every aspect- ESPECIALLY in a largely roleplaying environment.

You say there's tons of sources of information, but not citing anything. And even if you do, there are plenty of counter-arguements with just as much validity.
I hope in the future you can understand how you come off to others when you insult them. You aren't going to change anyone's mind with a bunch of bad words.

Which is the problem. I'm an epic mage, master of Destruction and the arcane, but I have to spam and kite to destroy? That pretty much goes against everything destruction was and is.




So I guess you didnt even read my post, and just wanted to post that ignorance, quoting me for some reason. Strange. Worked up? The only one that seems worked up is you.

Its not even an argument anymore. Its a known fact that Destruction compared to the other damage dealing skills is not as effective in the long run.

Be glad you actually have a challenge..
One handed / resto is OP as hell
So is Archer / Resto

I'm so sick of one shotting everything.
Ancient dragons, Giants, Frost trolls, Mammoths, end game bosses.
Edit - I should say I don't one shot ancient dragons but it takes maybe 4-6 arrows.
Regular dragons can be taken out in 1-2 hits
ON MASTER MODE. I've been on mastermode since level 30 and expert 1-29. I'm now 58

Ok I'll give you a break its an easy mistake without actually using them.
Lightning bolt is Thunderbolt's baby sister. You can dual-cast thunderbolt giving MUCH higher damage than lightning storm.