Well this info is a bit disappointing but I think that the things that you were most critical of are the types of things that are tweaked in the later stages of development. They seem to have created a very nice looking Tamriel but the animations and fighting mechanics seem to need tweaking. With many months yet until beta I would have expected as much because if not then beta would be starting in a few months. Next E3 and beta will tell the "true" story and that is a long time away. Still very hopeful and looking forward to release but aware that it is always wise to dampen expectations. I do agree that the Blade Storm combo attack seems rather odd and that getting more loot by using our skills "correctly" seems silly. Never did understand that connection other than an awkward way to encourage players to play wisely. Seems like an experience bonus would make more sense.

This
As I sayd before, I need to see the video to make my own opinion
After all, its a matter of taste... and the eye of the beholder.

Can you elaborate on what you disliked about the Argonian and Khajiit models?

I've seen video footage of both of these races in action and personally, I was rather impressed. In fact, what I saw made me want to play an Argonian.

Not trying to start any Internet fights but pretty much "pics or it didn't happen" type situation. any joe shmo can say they were there and blah blah but unless you have vids and such or a big name to back u up I don't really believe. Nothing against the op honestly, but yeah.

I can believe the animations might be off cause like lots of people said its still a year away. But again its just another name in the world of the internetz. Again though nothing personal op and hope u don't take offense.

Honestly, I think their current iteration of combat is relatively new. I think they saw the way some of the newer games are going (GW2, Neverwinter, Terra) and they began to make their combat more 'action oriented.' I think they know it isn't great yet, and that's why it was offered up behind closed doors only. I think in the next 6 months there will be a lot of polishing going on, and I also think the guys at ZOS are very talented and they'll be releasing something very cool, and when they are ready, we'll all get to see it.

As far as character models go - many have mentioned that the game is pre-alpha. Textures, lighting, animations, and many more factors are yet to be finalized. I think the goal of E3 this year was to say, "Hey, we've got something pretty massive and cool on the way." They have accomplished that - people are interested now. Let's hope they are good about giving us regular updates.

So far since the TESO forum is open, most of the comments are from each of us point of view. (Including me) .
I saw so few posts "neutral" or "objectives", that well, lots of posts ends in the same discussion: one view vs another.
I think the op should not take offense, because we are just stating our view on the matter.
And in the end, it does not matter how the game look (obviusly, with some limits) but how it feels.
I will give a personal example... If back in the 2003 , they showed me a video of a guy running in Morrowind, I will not give 1 cent for it.
But when you play it... oh my friend... that is a whole different matter... all the things put together.

It's indeed a hard job to portray your game in a way that makes people want to know more or even play it right away, but not give out too much information. I can't say that Bethesda has done a good job at this with their last releases, which quite saddens me because I think Pete is a great guy, but their marketing strategy sometimes pisses me off. They depend too much on gaming magazines and journalists instead of communicating with the communtiy directly, and there are long periods without any information at all.
"Hey, we are doing a game, and it looks something like this. Bye!" leaves your fans hanging, and people who didn't get a positive first impression will not bother waiting for new information either.
Yes, I get Matt's idea of "a mile wide and an inch deep", it makes sense when you first introduce a new game. But so far the marketing has been the same as with Skyrim, but we have to wait much longer until release, and I fear they will lose a lot of people on the way if they stick to their strategy. With Skyrim, we had at least a considerable amount of reasonable expectations based on TES I-IV, so we could fill the lack of information with deduction from those games. But with TESO, we have very little information to work with, and absolutely no idea about the majority of features.

They need to go deeper than an inch to keep people interested. Very soon.

Well if we follow the Skyrim example... it bringed a lot more "new" people to the saga. Lots and LOTS of people started with skyrim.
May be the same will happen here. A portion will lost interest, may be yes. But consider that, for that time, most will be tired of Skyrim and its DLC′s and will return to find something new. So, a good side of the community will at last try it. And depending of the final result, will stay or not.

The game probably isnt even ready to enter closed alpha testing yet so its no surprise that there is a lack of polish.

It's worth pointing out that in MMOs combat and core gameplay mechanics are largely consolidated a year or more out from release. And it makes sense - these games take 5+ years (normal games usually need about 2), and owing to the amount of content it's necessary that you can spend those final 6-9 pre-beta months adding and balancing the content, rather than making last-minute decisions/revisions/remodels on core mechanics. Sure, they'll be tweaking synergies and the visuals of this-or-that spell animation, but the overall style is going to be very firmly worked out. They've had 5 years already, and in MMOs that's exactly what you use the time for. Right now it's about making a lot of content that works within the confines of the mechanics, and perhaps the occasional tweak here and there - and of course a whole raft of debugging and balancing in internal beta and then open beta, but that goes without saying. People who said of TOR's combat 18 months out from release that "hey it's only alpha/pre-alpha - it'll get much better" certainly had the pie thrown in their faces post-release.

EDIT:


This is spot on. Skyrim occupied a special place in the market, owing to virtually no direct competition and a dedicated fanbase. TESO is a game that isn't trying to re-invent the wheel (by their own admission) and if they want people to pay attention, they need to realize that playing coy won't work for them as much as for Bethesda Game Studios. I can't recall a AAA title that's received a more mixed response from games journalists in recent memory. Never mind that forums are crazy with varying opinions - that's to be expected - but journalists? These guys are paid to stay indifferent about titles until release, when they can review them and vent their bottled-up dislike. But during the showcasing period after a game's been announced, it's not a good look to have journalists on PCgamer, Gamepot and Gamepy all openly giving it a big "meh" or "we'll just wait and see" - because frankly no one really knows how this game is going to distinguish itself yet.

I've checked about four or five games sites since E3, who all have their 'favourite game of X genre at E3' or 'E3 Editor's Choice' etc., and not even in the MMO section have I seen TESO get a mention. It's usually Planetside or the Trion one (forgot its name) - and as a TES fan, that worries me. I remember the Skyrim E3 demo had every journalist salivating; the fact that an even bigger TES title can't do that is somewhat worrying.

actually I thought they looked very good (style wise)

I haven't lost hope on this game based on this review. As I have reiterated a few times now, character art and animation is the last aspect of an MMO to be finalized. And the combat system itself will continue to be tweaked.

Regarding Neverwinter, it was supposed to be out already, but when Perfect World bought Cryptic Studios, they insisted that neverwinter be made info a full MMO with an official persistant world rather than a small-party online RPG driven by the Foundry (user generated dungeons and quests). Their combat system has been polished for some time now. It's almost an unfair comparrison.

When we see TESO at E3 2013 (and we will see it there, trust me), I doubt very seriously that the concerns raised here will apply.

As I have also said elsewhere, if we were in open beta and this is how things were, there would be real cause for concern. A lot of progress can be made in the course of a year.

As far as I am concerned, the world looks great. If character art continues to improve apace for the next several months, it will be fine... Then it becomes just a matter of whether or not the gameplay can be both fun and engaging...

Oh lordy here we go, I tried to grab everybody!


Yep, I make no bones about that, and I don't take offense at all.

However, as I said in a previous post, I was/am negative toward the direction ZOS are going with the game, but that does not preclude my love for TES as a whole and my solemn and sincere wish for an MMORPG that incorporates not only the lore, but the (perfectly possible in an MMO) mechanics that I personally hold so dear from other TES games. These mechanics like the freedom, immersion and interactivity (including combat) are the reason why whenever I play another RPG like, say The Witcher series, Dragon Age, etc, my mind always echoes: "This is fun and all, but if only it could be like The Elder Scrolls." That's why even unpolished, underfunded MMOs like Darkfall and Mortal have grabbed so much of my attention and I am willing to put up with their flaws because they evoke such a feeling close to that of an Elder Scrolls game. Hell, if you start as in Alfar (Dark Elf) in Darkfall their homeland is literally a volcanic environment with giant mushrooms! Sound familiar!? Hehe.

As I've said several times before in other threads, there are many things that bother me: race-locked factions, lack of housing, incongruous art-style and above all the lack of immersive, dynamic, Skyrim-esque combat in favor of "typical" MMO combat mechanics. However, I have also stated that I could live with and/or forgive the other issues if they gave me the combat I love from Bethesda's TES series. But that's just me, and we all have different views on the matter, hence the discussion.

That said you can feel free to ignore my editorial impressions all you like, all I'm doing is attempting to provide a view directly to this community, from someone who knows and adores the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Also, to clarify, I want it to be a lot like Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind in the game-play department and as LITTLE like WoW as possible (in my mind the two are polar opposites when it comes to RPGs). Right now it is more leaning toward WoW than Elder Scrolls and that bothers me.


I hadn't played the most recent beta, but yes I grant you nothing I saw in the ESO demo is set in stone. They could ostensibly get rid of classes, and make combat first-person real-time before release if they felt it was truly necessary. Perhaps the middling reviews will drive them towards that, or perhaps they will stick to their guns.


Without actually saying those exact words (they would clearly try to spin it into a positive notion) that is the impression I got. From an MMO standpoint, it makes sense. They know the amount of people who are going to want to explore the world of Tamriel at the outset. If you have to level up three different characters to do that, that will take you more time and thus generate them more money. I am not saying yes 100% but there was no indication that even at the level cap you could go into another faction's territory, they simply kept saying that the endgame focus is all about conquering Cyrodiil.


True, I wasn't really disappointed and Daggerfall looked large enough to justify its grandeur in the lore.


You're welcome!

Considering past evidence, if the fans demand it enough, they could change it completely. They still have time to change those things if they are motivated to do so. It only happens rarely and usually for the worst (SWG's NGE/CU) but if you remember recently there was a HUGE outcry when TOR first showed its interface and that outcry led to a complete retooling of it from the ground up. Was it for the better? Who knows, but that's just an example of its possibility. It really all depends on two things: If the developers care about the fan-base's opinions and if they can convince the bean-counters that it will be more profitable to redesign said elements.

If we, as a fan-base, were to cry out loud enough about these things, we could change them. If we are, as so many seem, complacent about these elements and just want the TES lore in a bog-standard MMO, then they likely won't change.


Well you can certainly pull the facts from the impressions. Impressions are easy to ignore. As for the quest system, all we saw was the public dungeon quest. Nobody talked to an NPC and got a quest and I did not see any big yellow question marks above anyone's heads (thank god). They may be there, but they weren't in the demo.


Honestly, I think Skyrim's designs spoiled me. In ESO, the Argonian looked more frog-like in his face than lizard-like and the Khajiit to me was overly simplified compared to the other races. The face looked more like a house-cat than a wild feline beast, but having said that it might be just one of several of the Khajiiti sub-races!!! Doubtful, but maybe! They have time to tweak this.


Well the simple answer is that they weren't allowing cameras back there. I guess I could have taken some pics of me with the props but we were being rushed in and out and I didn't have a scheduled interview with any of the devs (sadly) nor a camera crew with me. I don't take offense at all, I understand the skepticism. I do have plenty of pics with me at E3 though so I can post some of those later on when my friend with the camera wakes up.


Yup that's true, I just hope ZOS realize that when beta testing starts they will have a LOT of work on their hands. I really hope they don't just rest on their laurels.


Yes, very true on all accounts, but even in open beta things can be pretty wonky and get improved by release. As I've been saying there is still time for improvement but they will only bother to make those improvements if their potential audience request/demand it from them.

SOME things can be improved by release once a game goes into open beta. However, experience shows that the most telling ones will not. And usually those are systemic in nature as opposed to aesthetic. Those who have played any length of time in beta stop caring about the aesthetics and are ever more mindful of systems and mechanics, particularly when many of them are missing.

But right now, I cannot imagine ZOS truly being satisfied with things as they are, The incongruities between environment and character art are too noticable for them to leave it as is. For some it won't really be an issue. But they have to know that it will be for others.

It will never be perfect for some people, regardless of what ZOS does.

"If all you need is the Elder Scrolls lore to enjoy this then more power to you, but if you're looking for the TES feel and/or gameplay, it is all but entirely absent."

TES lore isn't being followed, you mean if all you need is the ES name and some re-skins. I think their vision borrows heavily from WoW, DAoC, and maybe some cues from GW2. If you love WoW and DAoC, this mmo will be great for you. If you're looking for TES in mmo form... not so much.

Ermm while I'm all for the good old "is ESO a TES game" debate, exactly why did this thread need revived after...7 months?...