The "Second" Great War?

Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:52 pm

We don't know if they hired Khajjit as spies? Then why did .(Spoiler) Dragonborn was jumped by a Khajjit woman who happened to be a thamor spy in Riften?.

I recommend re-reading what you quoted. I said we do know that Khajiit are hired as spies and assassins, we don't know about Wood Elves.
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Jynx Anthropic
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:57 pm

I think it's reasonable to assume that the Thalmor armies contain Bosmer auxiliaries. Clearly at least some segment of the Bosmeri population must support the Dominion's leadership since it would be impossible for the Dominion to wage war across half of Tamriel with Valenwood 80 or 90% opposed to them. There'd be too much unrest to keep ahold of the province while their armies are in Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. Exactly to what extent the Bosmer are involved is up for debate, though I certainly don't think there are entire legions worth of Bosmeri warriors forming their own corps or armies, I wouldn't be surprised to see battalions of Bosmer archers or lighter troops in support roles.

Also, the Nord legions were what turned the tide. Hammerfell's legions were bogged down and eventually withdrawn but had many defectors, the Cyrodiil legions were routed, mauled, or destroyed. Only once Mede retreated to Bruma and called in reinforcements from Skyrim did he have enough strength to turn the tide in Cyrodiil. I think High Rock didn't help much because there just aren't as many legions stationed there, but that does bring up another point. If there were still fresh legions in High Rock they could certainly have been called in, and High Rock itself is a pretty wealthy, populous province isn't it? Surely that would be a great source of manpower to use against the Dominion once Cyrodiil and Hammerfell were depleted, but you don't hear anything about Bretons entering the fray.
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Emily Shackleton
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:26 pm

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Thalmor have another army of reinforcements that they could crush the Empire with. If that was the case they would have done it. They don't. There is nothing stopping the empire from retaking Valenwood and Elsweyr. If your the Thalmor you dont send a small portion of your army to take over the empire, you send a large majority of it. The Thalmor army was completely destroyed while the Empire was still getting reinforcements from Skyrim and High Rock while Hammerfell was holding the line in their province. What you have here is basically the German attack on the Russians in WW2. They gambled and sent a large force to take Russia but the gamble failed. The army was destroyed and nothing stood between Russia and defeating Germany. It'd be like if after the battle of Stalingrad (which was the turning point in the eastern front) Stalin just said, "Ok we will give you whatever you want"
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Marie Maillos
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:01 am

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Thalmor have another army of reinforcements that they could crush the Empire with. If that was the case they would have done it. They don't. There is nothing stopping the empire from retaking Valenwood and Elsweyr. If your the Thalmor you dont send a small portion of your army to take over the empire, you send a large majority of it. The Thalmor army was completely destroyed while the Empire was still getting reinforcements from Skyrim and High Rock while Hammerfell was holding the line in their province. What you have here is basically the German attack on the Russians in WW2. They gambled and sent a large force to take Russia but the gamble failed. The army was destroyed and nothing stood between Russia and defeating Germany. It'd be like if after the battle of Stalingrad (which was the turning point in the eastern front) Stalin just said, "Ok we will give you whatever you want"

Ha. Good anology, friend. Yeah, that's a very good way of showing Mede's stupidity. Atleast re-negotiate the treaty. The extinction of men is one of the main Thalmor goals.
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Nicola
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:08 pm

Talos must go to make way for a new god. My dovakiin.
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Trista Jim
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:56 am

The Thalmor do not breed as fast as men, but thier Goblin troops breed very quickly. This is something that people tend to forget.
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Nadia Nad
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:22 am

I think it's reasonable to assume that the Thalmor armies contain Bosmer auxiliaries. Clearly at least some segment of the Bosmeri population must support the Dominion's leadership since it would be impossible for the Dominion to wage war across half of Tamriel with Valenwood 80 or 90% opposed to them. There'd be too much unrest to keep ahold of the province while their armies are in Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. Exactly to what extent the Bosmer are involved is up for debate, though I certainly don't think there are entire legions worth of Bosmeri warriors forming their own corps or armies, I wouldn't be surprised to see battalions of Bosmer archers or lighter troops in support roles.

Also, the Nord legions were what turned the tide. Hammerfell's legions were bogged down and eventually withdrawn but had many defectors, the Cyrodiil legions were routed, mauled, or destroyed. Only once Mede retreated to Bruma and called in reinforcements from Skyrim did he have enough strength to turn the tide in Cyrodiil. I think High Rock didn't help much because there just aren't as many legions stationed there, but that does bring up another point. If there were still fresh legions in High Rock they could certainly have been called in, and High Rock itself is a pretty wealthy, populous province isn't it? Surely that would be a great source of manpower to use against the Dominion once Cyrodiil and Hammerfell were depleted, but you don't hear anything about Bretons entering the fray.

Rewarding this with the White-Gold Concordat is one of the fueling fires behind the Stormcloak Rebellion. Out of all three of Cyrodiil's allies, Skyrim helped the most, and was also the most offended by the banning of Talos worship.

According to The Great War, the Thalmor were looking for assistance in staging a coup against the Valenwood government, some power-hungry Bosmeri factions siezed the initiative, so you're right. You're also right about Bosmer military power being minimal, it's hard to form a potent military when your government is busy purging its own people.

Regarding High Rock, it is similar to Elsweyr. While committed more to the war, Bretons are too busy caring about High Rock to be devoted to helping the Empire. Hammerfell also had its own problems.
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A Dardzz
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:33 am

The Thalmor do not breed as fast as men, but thier Goblin troops breed very quickly. This is something that people tend to forget.

Didn't Goblins become extinct some time in the third era?
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Nicholas
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:14 pm

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Thalmor have another army of reinforcements that they could crush the Empire with. If that was the case they would have done it. They don't. There is nothing stopping the empire from retaking Valenwood and Elsweyr. If your the Thalmor you dont send a small portion of your army to take over the empire, you send a large majority of it. The Thalmor army was completely destroyed while the Empire was still getting reinforcements from Skyrim and High Rock while Hammerfell was holding the line in their province. What you have here is basically the German attack on the Russians in WW2. They gambled and sent a large force to take Russia but the gamble failed. The army was destroyed and nothing stood between Russia and defeating Germany. It'd be like if after the battle of Stalingrad (which was the turning point in the eastern front) Stalin just said, "Ok we will give you whatever you want"


Yep hit the nail on the head!
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Baylea Isaacs
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:33 pm

Didn't Goblins become extinct some time in the third era?
The events in Oblivion occurred at the end of the Third Era, but I do not know if they became extinct between Oblivion and Skyrim.
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CYCO JO-NATE
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:32 am

IMO, I think the Empire signed teh WGC to rebuild(they can do it faster than elves) and then strike. The Dominion knew this so they got Ulfric to do their dirty work. Everything that would have been saved with the WGC was ALL wasted with the Stormcloaks. Remember, people still had shrines to Talos before the Markarth Incident. With Ulfric's intervention, the Emperor was forced to act.
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:02 pm

Regarding High Rock, it is similar to Elsweyr. While committed more to the war, Bretons are too busy caring about High Rock to be devoted to helping the Empire. Hammerfell also had its own problems.

To be honest my impression of the Empire from Morrowind and lore was that it was a little more 'authoritarian' and centralized than that. As if the Emperor could 'order' levies to be raised whenever he wished. But after seeing Oblivion and Skyrim it's become clear that there's a sort of quasi feudalism going on here, which may be why the Bretons didn't help much. But that begs the question, if all of the Empire's 'core provinces' of Cyrodiil, Skyrim, High Rock, and presumably also Hammerfell are largely under the personal control of petty lords, how have the legions come about in the first place?

Prior to the Great War I believe that the Emperor had dozens of legions of 5,000 men each, who were all well armed, well trained, and disciplined forces. But, where are these men coming from if the Counts and Jarls and whoever else are essentially in a 'Feudalism, Vassal' arrangement with the Emperor, who only directly controls (it could be assumed) the Imperial City and its surrounding region?
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Trevor Bostwick
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:11 am

Yes the Empire did crush the Dominion in Cyrodiil but that doesn't give us any information at what cost. As far as we know the Empire might have been victorious but greatly weakened, AGAIN. We also have no idea what remaining forces the Thalmor had. Countinuing the war might have been a good as well as a terrible idea. The Emperor chose to sign a treaty.
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Rachel Hall
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:22 am

Yes the Empire did crush the Dominion in Cyrodiil but that doesn't give us any information at what cost. As far as we know the Empire might have been victorious but greatly weakened, AGAIN. We also have no idea what remaining forces the Thalmor had. Countinuing the war might have been a good as well as a terrible idea. The Emperor chose to sign a treaty.
If i remember the book correctly the great war mentions the empire didn't have any legions left over 50% and others completely destroyed. the main sticking point on whether he should have fought or not comes from whether or not the other provinces could make up for it and how much was left of the AD army. I personally think neither would have won if it had gone on.
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Harinder Ghag
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:12 am

Actually, we do have some information. Apparently at the end of the war most legions were at half strength or a little worse, and around half had been destroyed. I believe the list of legions goes up to 40, but I could be mistaken.

But even if the Emperor had not one single soldier left to command it doesn't seem like it mattered. Had the Empire stayed in the war Hammerfell would've taken care of itself, there would be no Dominion forces in Cyrodiil, and Hammerfell would've remained part of the Empire. As far as we can tell, events would've played out the same whether or not the Emperor had any soldiers to command at all, it's just Titus Mede blinked and signed a ridiculously disadvantageous treaty with an enemy who was probably almost as injured as the Empire was.
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Dina Boudreau
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:19 pm

The main question is,"Do you think there will be a second Great War?"

not

"Do you think the Empire should have kept on fighting in the first Great War?"

I have my own opinions on what should have taken place during the first war, but those actions have already been made.

So to answer the OP's original question. Could there be a second Great War? Possibly. Anything can happen.

The Empire could dissolve from within from civil war just as the Aldmeri Dominion could.

Both empires could regain strength and attempt to wipe each other out again.

Argonia could turn into a 3rd super power and start a whole new set of conflicts, who can know?

What will happen to the Empire? From what I personally have seen, I do not know. They seem strong, yet vulnerable. Have only seen one province and its problems.
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Amanda Leis
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

Didn't Goblins become extinct some time in the third era?

Absolutely not.
There is no lore that says that.

There is also no reason to assume so.
When last seen in Oblivion, they were wily, numerous and quite capable of defending themselves.

Also, if my theories are correct, the Thalmor may have a steady supply of goblins not only because they mate among themselves, but quite possibly because goblins is what happens when species close to Aldmer dont practice stringent reprocreation laws.
It is my belief that the goblins in Oblivion were in fact what is left of the Ayleid.
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Stephanie I
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:30 pm

IMO, I think the Empire signed teh WGC to rebuild(they can do it faster than elves) and then strike. The Dominion knew this so they got Ulfric to do their dirty work. Everything that would have been saved with the WGC was ALL wasted with the Stormcloaks. Remember, people still had shrines to Talos before the Markarth Incident. With Ulfric's intervention, the Emperor was forced to act.

The problem was not negotiating a new peace treaty.
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carla
 
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Post » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:27 am

Didn't Goblins become extinct some time in the third era?

Snow Elves were also considered extinct until they started raiding recently as Falmer.
And of course the Dragons were also thought extinct as well.

Never say never. Hell wouldn't surprise me if we go back to Morrowind one day and find cliff racers survived.
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Smokey
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:51 pm

Snow Elves were also considered extinct until they started raiding recently as Falmer.
And of course the Dragons were also thought extinct as well.

Never say never. Hell wouldn't surprise me if we go back to Morrowind one day and find cliff racers survived.

Gods no! Gods no...
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Marquis T
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:19 pm

Heres a thought to a secret reason behind the empire signing the white gold concordant;

Well you know how the moons disappeared for two years, and the kahjiit (a race whos existence relies on the moons phases) were worried, and then one day they appeared and the thalmor claimed that it was them who brought back the moons and the kahjiit were so happy which led to them essentially becomming a vassal state to the dominion. Well maybe in both the dominion and the empire's time of need, the dominion threatened the empire that they would get rid of the moons again, and Titus mede II not knowing if they could actually deliver on the threat didnt want to take the risk and signed it anyway.

Also remember this, Tiber septim/Talos is just as much an imperial diety as a Nord diety (if not more so, he is after all the one who managed to dominate all of tamriel with the numidium under the banner of the empire) So dont think the empire just cast away with talos with no remorse and no thoughts of the nord culture.
There ultimately had to be some bigger reason why the empire signed the treaty, there is something the thalmor told/did to make them sign it that wasnt put in the history books. Perhaps a DLC will shed some light on this...
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Logan Greenwood
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:49 pm

Well to clarify it would kind of be the third great war. The first having been about at the end of the second era. When Tiber Septim was fighting the old Aldmeri Dominion during his conquests. However that one ended with a walking brass time killing god-robot gallivanting around the Summerset Isles forcing their surrender. However metaphyisically the Altmer are still fighting Numidium in time capsules as an unseen war of metaphysics and quantums is raging behind the scenes. Interesting stuff.

Yeah as I said though. Third great war would be next! There has already been two Great Wars fought with pretty much the same opposing forces. Empire VS Dominion.
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Erich Lendermon
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:48 pm

I think that in the next game there will be another bigger war.
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Liii BLATES
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:34 pm

I see the "Second Great War" or resolution of the Great War coming in a DLC. The Thalmor are still trying to kill the Dovahkiin, seeing him/her as a continuation of the Talos myth and the Septim tradition of Dragonborn leaders. This leads the player to settle the Kingsmoot and go to Cyrodiil and join the fight against the Dominion. Dovahkiin proceeds to wipe his ass with those Altmer pansies and reunite the Empire. There is always an Empire in an Elder Scrolls Game. Just like there is always a captured prisoner.
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Jay Baby
 
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Post » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:44 pm

There will be a second. Thankfully I was able to put down the rebellion in Skyrim. Unifying the empire and making it ready to defend itself from the accursed racist elf nazi's! :D
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Channing
 
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