I don't want to sound like a whiner, so I'm writing this post to be as constructive as possible and hopefully to get some serious feedback on my opinion. I first started playing TES with Morrowind, and I played a pure mage for months on end and loved every minute of it. I especially enjoyed the utility spells like Levitation, Slowfall, Mark/Recall, etc.

And then when Oblivion was released I was so disappointed to learn that Bethesda had removed all of these types of spells, apparently because of the way the game was designed, but luckily mods were able to add them back in. And of course the one big advancement in Oblivion was that there was no longer a "casting mode" like in Morrowind. Pressing a hotkey simply cast the spell immediately.

Now enter Skyrim (which I just started a few days ago), and once you get past the novelty of dual casting a spell, it seems that the spell system has been gutted even further. Not only are the usual suspects still missing, but other neat spells (Nighteye, Open Lock, Charm, Waterwalking) have been removed as well! And on top of that, you now have to equip spells to your hands before you cast them. AND you have to enter a "casting mode" again! AND there is now a "casting time" mechanic before a spell can be cast. And of course we can no longer craft our own spells.

I do appreciate some of the streamlining that went into Skyrim, such as not having a billion different types of Destruction spells for each skill level. But streamlining shouldn't mean removing some of the most useful and fun spells the series has had.

So what's everyone's take on this? I admit I didn't follow much Skyrim news when it was released, because I didn't have a PC good enough to play it until now, so was this ever mentioned in reviews of the game? Was it a fan complaint when the game was released? Am I just making too much of it? I'd love to hear what people think of this.

And yes, I know mods can add back a lot of these spells, but really, that shouldn't be an excuse for the original design decisions made by the developers. This post has more to do with the general trend of where TES games are headed than complaining about this or that specific spell being absent. At this rate, it seems like TES VI will have no magic at all!

Thanks for reading,
John

Im pretty sure all tes fans would like magick to be more extensive as it was before more spells never hurt

All I know is that I was never able to enjoy playing a mage in an Elder Scrolls game until Skyrim came out. In fact I enjoyed playing a mage in Skyrim so much that I went back to Oblivion so I could give mages another try in that game. And I still didn't enoy playing a mage in Oblivion. Differnt strokes I guess.

And in morrowind or Oblivion you didn't have to equip spells?
Heck, you can now even equip spells two at a time.

What were some of the differences you didn't like?

In Morrowind yes, that was part of my point, that in Skyrim they went back to the "casting mode" type of game play. I admit I never minded it much in Morrowind, but probably because I didn't know of anything different. But after Oblivion changed it to something quicker, it seems weird to go back to the older style where you have to take extra steps to cast.

I'll admit to missing some of the utility spells such as Levitation, Jump, Slowfall, Feather, etcetera, but having played a "pure mage" for awhile now, I don't think it's ever been quite so smooth a transition between spells and gameplay, rather than having to navigate a myriad of menus.

I don't miss Spellmaking at all. The novelty of "Super Nuclear Death Spell", "Broken As Hell Stat Stacking Spell" and "Amusing and Probably Unintended Side Effects Spell" diminishes quickly.

Meh. I just HATE HATE HATE that so many spells were dropped as well as spellmaking.

For me yes, it is. Less spells, no spellmaking, I couldn't care less about the kill cams, for me spellmaking was the fun.

I agree that spell making is one of the changes I'm least concerned about, because I used it usually just to make a custom Destruction spell or three, and that was about it. Maybe something else here and there. But I mentioned it anyway as a further example of how Bethesda keeps changing (i.e. removing) the spell system of each successive game.

Yes, no question about it.
The spellsystem was the best in Arena and gradily got worse.
Removal of options, arbitrary hardcaps and now finally the removal of a flagship feature, spellmaking.

Unfathomable.
Like McDonalds taking the Big Mac off the menu.

How they can remove a flagship feature especially to replace it with this bland sort of drab we got in its place Ill never understand.

There are games out there with a more varied, more utalitarian and more fun magic system than Skyrim.
A decade ago saying something like that would have been high blasphemy as there can be no doubt they stood head and shoulders above the rest.

There is Nighteye in the game, obtained through your days in the College of Winterhold. It hardly costs magicka, but has the master casting animation, which makes it a pain at times. Khajiit don't have this problem, they just have it as racial power.

Charm affected disposition. I think it's effects have been added to Speech perks.

I do miss Waterwalking and Open Lock as well. While I can't say I can't live without them, it would be nice to have both and especially for Open Lock, not having to rely on lockpicks, as a mage character.

The casting system, wasn't something I couldn't get used to. As for spellmaking, since we don't have to equip the same spell on both hands, I could say that what we currently have, could be called "Spellmaking on the fly"

Yes, I was quite shocked when I went to the Skyrim wiki and looked at the "complete" list of all the spells and I saw that each spell school had only about 10-15 spells, TOTAL!

It is the worst with Conjuration. What happened to all the Summons?

I agree with the OP. I don't enjoy playing a Mage in Skyrim at all and I feel like the hay-day for magicka users was in Morrowind - when you had a wide variety of spells both offensive, defensive, and utility spells. Sure the mechanics of how you accessed spells were pretty clunky, but that was a product of the times. When I play Morrowind now I have a mod that allows me to cast a spell at any time, without having to first ready my hands. And I can also have up to 10 spells hotkeyed, allowing me to just press '2' or '5' or whatever number to instantly have a spell placed on my bar, and then all I need is to press another button to cast it - fairly easy.

Destruction is a lot more limited now - You only have 3 types of damage rather than five - to say nothing about damaging weapons/armor/attributes. And though there are admittedly new and cooler effects (like the 'Flamethrower' type of fire spell), those effects very quickly become obsolete, forcing you to upgrade to the 'fireball', and so on. Due to the lack of spell making, of course. It would be much better if I could keep the 'flamethrower' effect viable throughout the game.

Conjuration is total crap now - In Morrowind you could summon a huge variety of both undead and Daedra - most of which subsequently disappeared from Elder Scrolls post Morrowind. Skyrim only has a paltry handful of summons available.

Mysticism - Why do you need Mark/Recall/Intervention when every character has mini-teleportation device implanted in his arm? I miss absorb health though.

Alteration - Who wants to be able to jump high, or walk on water anymore? Part of the fun of being a mage was the eccentric convenience you could invoke in walking over water to avoid slaughterfish, or floating up to see the Telvanni mage lords who of course only live up high to filter out unwanted visitors. Many of the defensive spells are still maintained at least...

Illusion - It's okay I guess, but I want some of the old spell effects back... Silence and Charm most notably.

Restoration - It's okay. Probably the best of the Skyrim schools.

I agree. I have been playing as a Mage since Morrowind. Magic has always been my favorite to play with. But Skyrim has in a way forced me to quit playing as a Mage because magic were so poorly done and there were far too few. It is hard to enjoy being a mage in Skyrim.

Agreed.
Ive been a mage in three TES games.
In Skyrim Im a sneak archer.
'Nuff said.

Precisely! I am playing the exact same way with my character. I am mostly a sneak archer because I have been forced out on playing as a mage.

In a way yes. When I was playing skyrim I was hoping for a plethora of spells, or at least a lot more than we currently have. I want spell-making to return so I can make more destruction spells. Using incinerate, icy spear, and thunderbolt all the time can get a little dull. More spells in general wouldn't hurt either. Ah well, I still enjoy being a mage(with armor, mage armor perks svck), and hey at least the magic looks pretty .

Magic is great in Skyrim.

Just like cold weather grows the beard thicker, the path of the mage in Skyrim makes you a real man

Wow. I've never read a thread on this subject before...

Oh.

No, wait...

Yeah. I've read dozens and dozens of them.

I think we can all agree that magic was more varied and intricate in previous games. But the design of all forms of combat have changed a little in Skyrim. Dual wielding spells for a start. Bethesda simply aren't going to change Magic as it stands in Skyrim. A few more spells in future DLC maybe, but nothing groundbreaking, and certainly nothing which radically redesigns the existing system.

But if they brought back quick casting, they'd probably have to nerf the magic again. I'd rather equip it just like weapons to be honest. I've played as mages in Morrowind and Skyrim, but never in Oblivion. They were just too damn useless in my opinion.

I do agree with you on the actual spells being removed, though. Unlock was a very useful spell to have. Now the lockpicking skill is necessary, which annoys me to hell since I don't think ANY skill should be a necessity to have in a roleplaying game. The skills should be a preference in the character you want to play as.

I love they way the new spells work but there does need to be more spell effects.

I enjoy magic more in Skyrim then previously. My first attempt at spellmaking in Oblivion left me so underwhelmed I never used it again, and could care less that it's gone. I do welcome more spells overall though.