The World better off than the US? : Fallout Series Discussion

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:42 am

Just to give a reaction to the original question...

If for example europe (or any other country) had vaults without the strange themes and tests then that country would be in better shape...
Still I doubt it would be much better, because indeed everything and everyone was proper f-cked after the nuclear holocaust...

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:55 am

According to the "Canon" story of Fallout as Ausir pointed out, the whole world was melted.

However, the Fallout series is also not very accurate in their depiction of the world after a nuclear war - the rain being just one.

From a realism stand-point, China would be the worst-off of all nations. The USA would be a close second, given how many nukes would be dropped on us - but I can say with certainty that China would be reduced to a desert where nothing could survive for a long, long time given how many nukes we have. Assuming China dropped several hundred if not several thousand nukes on US soil, then clearly there would be alot of places on earth that would Not be nuked to the ground and would grow-back alot faster.

So in game-lore, the whole world melted in the same way - but thats simply not how a real nuclear war would bear out. Most of the rest of the world would suffer from air-born Fallout, global cooling and most of all - the breakdown of the global food chain. So while Fallout lore says the world burned, I rather think that most of the world would starve to death - a very un-ceremoneous, un-spectacular way for the world to end, but definitely with the maximum horror.

M

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:01 am

In the Fallout universe, in those two hours, every country was hit, every major city targeted. Sure no nuclear winter, but the acidic rain would kill off nearly all plant life, not to mention most forms of tree were most likely killed off. (The anexation of Canada was for the large forests it still possesed in the timeline, the lumber would be a massive advantage in favour of the united states. Reasons for Canada still having a large lumber stock would it its small population and military in relationship to it, in all likely hood, they had shared thier dwindling coal and oil resources with the states in order to maintain relations until the annexation began with soldiers traveling through Canada to anchorage, later justified by the military by the attempted sabotage of the Alaskan oil pipeline.) China would have likely clear cut through the forests in asia in order to keep up with the U.S. over the battle for the remaining oil pockets. As an aside to a post I read earlier in this topic, the United States were not the sole possixrs of Powered Armour. The Chinese military had developed and were feilding its own form of Powered Armour in responce to the american deployment of it. And as said he New Plauge was a massive detriment to the population before Armageddeon, if it survived afterwards in other nations (There no information to confirm or deny this) it would have been devistating to surviving population.

Addendum to this, It is theorised in Fallout, and seemingly confirmed Fallout 2, all residents of Earth at this point in the Fallout timeline, Save still sealed vaults, and the Enclave, have been infected by a mutated form of FEV dispersed into the atmosphere when West-Tec was destroyed and its FEV tanks shattered.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:37 am

In the Fallout universe, in those two hours, every country was hit, every major city targeted. Sure no nuclear winter, but the acidic rain would kill off nearly all plant life, not to mention most forms of tree were most likely killed off.

I do not believe this is scientifically accurate, and it really makes no sense why a country like Chile or Argentena or Turkey would have, "All of their cities bombed". It really makes no sense. What makes alot of sense is that the US, China and their allies totally destroy one-another with nuclear bombs. But to say Every Major City was targetted - seems pure fantassy to me.

(The anexation of Canada was for the large forests it still possesed in the timeline, the lumber would be a massive advantage in favour of the united states. Reasons for Canada still having a large lumber stock would it its small population and military in relationship to it, in all likely hood, they had shared thier dwindling coal and oil resources with the states in order to maintain relations until the annexation began with soldiers traveling through Canada to anchorage, later justified by the military by the attempted sabotage of the Alaskan oil pipeline.) China would have likely clear cut through the forests in asia in order to keep up with the U.S. over the battle for the remaining oil pockets. As an aside to a post I read earlier in this topic, the United States were not the sole possixrs of Powered Armour. The Chinese military had developed and were feilding its own form of Powered Armour in responce to the american deployment of it. And as said he New Plauge was a massive detriment to the population before Armageddeon, if it survived afterwards in other nations (There no information to confirm or deny this) it would have been devistating to surviving population.

No way Canada would survive a war like that. If it has trees, most countries would also have them. No problems with Canada retaining a forest, but only if forest exists all over the planet. If one country had lots of lumber, then others would too. And the idea that No Rain falls 200 years after the war is insane - unless the Canon story has the Oceans boiled-off too?

200+ years after the war, the world would look much more like Fellout's depiction. The US and China might still be soaked in radiation, but not the entirety of the world. Thus alot of placed would have trees, brush, etc.

Addendum to this, It is theorised in Fallout, and seemingly confirmed Fallout 2, all residents of Earth at this point in the Fallout timeline, Save still sealed vaults, and the Enclave, have been infected by a mutated form of FEV dispersed into the atmosphere when West-Tec was destroyed and its FEV tanks shattered.

Hmmmm. Again it works well in the fantassy-world of Fallout, but not in the real world. In the real world, It is very difficult for diseases to jump oceans unless it hitches a ride with a human crossing the pond. Thats why ancient populations that first met with humans from another part of the world would "Bring" new diseases with them. After nuclear war with no-one flying around the world anymore, the spread of disease from continent to continent would virtually come to a stand-still.

I love Fallout3.

I just don't think the "Canon" version should be taken for Anything other than one Game-Team's depiction of the post apocalyptic world. The Fallout3 team went their own way, and I suspect future Fallout games will to. Its all in good Fun, but it's definitely not True in the real world.

M

» Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:24 pm

I never said it was in the above, in earlier portions of Fallout lore, and the Fallout Opening Cinimatic, Canada's forests proved a key factor in the U.S. routing the reds in Alaska. Now, if the currently most resorce rich country on earth at the time, was desparate enough to invade its northernly neighbour and spend a great ammount of time routing the Rebel forcing trying to stop the annexation, chances are Europe probably exausted it timber supplies during the resource wars, and china would not pass up the opportunity to harvest ever available tree to continue to power its economy and its war effort. That and the fact there are no living tree's in fallout, save the ones sprouted from harolds head, and the ones in vault city.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:19 pm

I think that the rest of the world might be in much better shape than the US for various resaons. First, the Vaults in the US were never meant to save anyone (with the exception of a few control Vaults), so what resulted in were very few survivors that could have repopulated and civilized the wasteland. Also, it's likely that the majority of nukes landed in China or the US, so much of the blast damage would have been confined in those two areas. While the fallout from the nukes would have been bad, it certainly would have been less than the two other countries. This would mean fewer mutants and less radiation that would have hindered repopulation in the rest of the world.

Also, it's very likely that other governments would have commissioned their own nuclear shelters, seeing how countries such as Russia did make their own underground shelters in the past in our world. While other governments might have done the same experiments like the US did, it's unlikely that all of them would have done so. In the US, only seventeen Vaults were control Vaults out of the 122 total. So imagine how much more development might have occurred if all 122 Vaults were actually meant to save people. Without the experimentation, it would mean that there would have been many more survivors of the nuclear holocaust.

With fewer hazards in the environment and more survivors, this would mean that the rest of the world is in much better shape than the US. Since the West Coast was able to set up a viable, working civilization with all the hazards and problems, it's not that hard to imagine the rest of the world with working governments and industry. So, what do you guys think?

Well, every country would be hit, because you never truly know who attacked you first or at all.

I do not believe this is scientifically accurate, and it really makes no sense why a country like Chile or Argentena or Turkey would have, "All of their cities bombed". It really makes no sense. What makes alot of sense is that the US, China and their allies totally destroy one-another with nuclear bombs. But to say Every Major City was targetted - seems pure fantassy to me.

No way Canada would survive a war like that. If it has trees, most countries would also have them. No problems with Canada retaining a forest, but only if forest exists all over the planet. If one country had lots of lumber, then others would too. And the idea that No Rain falls 200 years after the war is insane - unless the Canon story has the Oceans boiled-off too?

200+ years after the war, the world would look much more like Fellout's depiction. The US and China might still be soaked in radiation, but not the entirety of the world. Thus alot of placed would have trees, brush, etc.

Hmmmm. Again it works well in the fantassy-world of Fallout, but not in the real world. In the real world, It is very difficult for diseases to jump oceans unless it hitches a ride with a human crossing the pond. Thats why ancient populations that first met with humans from another part of the world would "Bring" new diseases with them. After nuclear war with no-one flying around the world anymore, the spread of disease from continent to continent would virtually come to a stand-still.

I love Fallout3.

I just don't think the "Canon" version should be taken for Anything other than one Game-Team's depiction of the post apocalyptic world. The Fallout3 team went their own way, and I suspect future Fallout games will to. Its all in good Fun, but it's definitely not True in the real world.

M

Actually all those countries you mentioned would be bombed, because #1 Turkey is a US ally and #2 the US has friendly relations with Chile, and #3, you bomb your enemies allies so they dont continue the fight. You dont only bomb the one who bombed you, you bomb him, his allies, and anyone friendly.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:22 pm

And the idea that No Rain falls 200 years after the war is insane - unless the Canon story has the Oceans boiled-off too?

There is rain in the Fallout world. It's mentioned in all 3 games, even if not shown in-game.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:11 am

There is rain in the Fallout world. It's mentioned in all 3 games, even if not shown in-game.

Also: Fallout 1 and 2 have non-irrigated farms. If people are farming, it by definition means that they are reliant on seasonal rains to water their crops.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:25 am

I don't think that it's so much better in Europe and other places than in U.S... Like, y'know, Alistair Tenpenny came from the British Commonwealth to "search his luck".
That means, it's not that good in Europe (and British Commonwealth).

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:23 am

I don't think that it's so much better in Europe and other places than in U.S... Like, y'know, Alistair Tenpenny came from the British Commonwealth to "search his luck".
That means, it's not that good in Europe (and British Commonwealth).

Poeple go from one place to another all the time to "Search their luck"... Doesnt mean the first place is bad or anything.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:43 am

The rest of the world was nuked just like the US. No one is better off than anyone, all you have to do is watch any of the opening videos of the games and you would know as much.

The fact that there is no communication with the rest of the world alone speaks to the world being as devastated as mainland US. Otherwise well before 200 years had passed there would be ships from other nations across the waters, care packages and humanitarian aid from allied/former allied nations, scouting parties from other countries looking for survivors and trace civilization, invasion forces landing on the beacheads, etc.

Take the end of Terminator 3 and you'll have a picture of what happened in 2077 :nuke:

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:44 am

Europe probably resembles the last 15 minutes of the movie Threads now. But with more fedoras.

» Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:25 am

Hmmm...well how do we know FEV doesnt exist in Europe? I mean, the Enclave alone retreated across the entire globe, so research facilities must have existed across the entire planet. So, its logical to assume that FEV is existant everywhere. Also, if the nuclear exchange was caused by China or the US, then they would have nuked eachothers allies as well. But, seeing as though neither side had allies helping with the war to begin with, its safe to assum neither side had any, especially since the fact that the US went into an isolationist state again. Also, the nuclear exchange was probably caused by a European nation that was pissed off at the fact that the US and CHina were fighting for the last oil reserves in the world,and thought theywouldnt get any, and then just nuked the US and China, causing the US and China to nuke other countries and eachothr as well. Logically, this would make sence. But since Fallout isnt logic at at all, nothing makes sence anyways...