Things TES Should Take from Fallout

Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:00 am

Recently, I've been playing a lot of Fallout 4 and it made me think about which concepts could be adapted to TES. While the series are very different, there is enough similarities that I think the question is relevant. Some ideas that that come to mind:

Disposition of Companions

Although I'm not sure it's necessary for a box to pop up in the upper left hand corner every time a follower approves or disapproves of your actions, I love the idea that companions are unique characters with likes and dislikes. It's absurd that every follower will tag along blindly regardless of your actions. Most of all, follower disposition gives a reasonable way to regulate the player's behavior. Fallout 3's Omnipotent karma mechanic went too far, stealing anything, even from a bad person without witnesses, pushed the player towards the dark side. Skyrim was the opposite, you could steal from the nice, old alchemist every few days and she'd be just fine. I would love a system where stealing repeatedly from a store could put them out of business, but until that day, a judgmental companion is the best way to make me think twice about robbing every NPC blind (or encourage me to do so if I have a follower who likes that sort of thing).

Fallout 4 also made an excellent decision by giving some companions an unique quest that became available when their disposition was favorable enough. One of the best aspects in both series is those moments when something seems simple but leads to a much more complex quest.

Meaningful Faction Membership

Fallout obviously has the advantage here as the games have a defined ending and force the player to choose sides between the factions. This mechanic would go against the TES' ideal of allowing a single character to do pretty much everything. I wouldn't like to see this implemented in the next TES; however, I would like to see my faction memberships have an impact beyond the guild hall. Guilds shouldn't be merely places to get some quests and have access to merchants and crafting stations. Belonging to a guild should be an essential part of my character's identity. If I wear the Thieve's Guild armor, people should react to that. Honest people might shun me, but shady NPC's might be more willing to invite me to join in their schemes.

The one concept I'm not sure about:


Settlements work perfectly in a game set in the aftermath of global annihilation. Tamriel is more developed and there are less logical opportunities to build a small village. Certainly, if such a mechanic was included, the number of possible locations would have to be limited. Maybe this could be possible in a few smaller holds similar to the Hearthfire homesteads. Or (I'll need the help of lore experts), maybe there could an untamed region in whichever province the next game is set in that would necessitate the building of forts to expand the ruling party's influence. These examples aside, I'm not sure if the idea could be seamless integrated.

Anyway, I hope to hear ideas from people much more knowledgeable than myself in both series.

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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:57 am

I generally agree, in broad strokes at least, with everything you've said.

Fallout 4 has what I believe are the best companion characters in the last 3 Fallout titles (3, Vegas and 4) hands down, and with the notable exception of Serena, the best companions in a Bethesda game, period. Skyrim, I feel, lost a lot in the fact that is ended up with too many companions, and thus didn't really have the ability to develop any of them to any real degree. Of course, companions are far more important in Fallout than TES, as it's roots are ultimately as a Party-Based RPG, instead of a singular experience, but the ovrral point remains. I would gladly have traded half the companions in Skyrim out, if it meant actually giving some character to those that remained.

Likewise, the ability to actually build a semblance of a relationship with them was far better done than in any other Bethesda game (in house or farmed out) to date. That said, I think the disposition idea has far more value than just for Companions, and now that they've got a decent working model, maybe we'll see more come out of it.

Factions I'm a little mixed on. I really like how the factions in Fallout 4 have more of a presence, with Minuteman patrols, Brotherhood Vertibirds and Institute Synths being relatively common sights that actually engage with the world around them... But I found the overall factions poorly handled, and the only way to really bring about a 'good' ending is clearly unfinished and requires some finangling. I feel that too much effort was put into trying to force you into a hard decision (potentially to recreate the feeling of New Vegas, which it's self was a really shallow choice that didn't remotely feel interesting or natural to me) really caused the factions to suffer in Fallout 4, and it's not something I'd like in the future. Then again, I find mutual exclucivity to be generally poor writing and lacks both depth and substance, sooooo...

Finally... I think the Settlement feature from Fallout really shines in 2 capacities, and can be really useful in that regard. First, is decorating. The way you can place things where you want is a huge advantage in TES, and shouldn't be overlooked. No more going to a merchant and buying a Kitchen set, you can now buy each piece of furnature and arrange them as you'd like. And, for the most part, NPCs can still figure out how to react to them. Imaging an activated mode that allows you to do the same with general item placement, instead of that horrendous 'Move' feature we've got now. The home-decorating potential there is fantastic.

The second advantage is something that may not be immediately apparent... But it's the Settlement Management dynamic. Fallout 4 introduces a mini-RTS element, requiring you to assign tasks, manage secondary resources, and keep your settlers happy, that could have huge potential in TES. From managing a Guild, to taking over a city, to manning a fortress, to managing a shop, the different applications for this really start to open up a whole bunch of options. Combined with some of the more refined Construction elements of Hearthfires, go could really expand the range of non-combat aspects of the game with that system.

Something else I'd add... And this comes from the Automaton DLC... Building your own robot. Copy that, make the bits fleshy, past it to Necromancy, Profit.

Then if course there's all the juicy potential of that crafting dynamic. Lock that in a room with ESO's and Dragon Age Inquisition's crafting, some scented candles, mellow tunes and a bottle of cheap wine, and you've got a 50/50 chance of one of the best Crafting systems ever, or a horrible abomination.
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Shannon Lockwood
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:59 am

They should take SPECIAL and the variety of starting perks (although make it TES specific). I think there's just a lot more roleplaying value in that system... where I feel like I can build pretty fleshed out identities for characters just with skills alone. I mean, you can be pretty specific, like making a wild west type or a hobo survivalist or science geek or a more civilized/suave type... all before you even start the game. Skyrim, in particular, makes me feel like I was "born yesterday" and you only grow into an identity over time. But I prefer having an identity and simply getting better at it.

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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:54 am

TES should take features from Oblivion and Morrowind, not from Fallout. Especially not from Fallout4!

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Mason Nevitt
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:01 am

I think that, mechanically, they've given about all they have of value. Besides a few concepts, there's not much left in those old bones to offer.

And why not? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because Fallout 4 isn't a shining paragon of everything great in gaming doesn't mean it doesn't have things to offer.

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Jonathan Braz
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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:11 pm

One thing I want to see in TES is the follower interface (or something similar) used in Fallout 2. The player could adjust a follower's aggression rating, flee rating, &c., but was restricted by the specific NPC. For example, Myron's flee rating could only be set to 'abject coward', while the tribal warrior guy could never be a coward.

I also want to see a dialogue system like in Fallout 1 & 2, where your skills & Intelligence determined what dialogue options were available, then your Speech skill determined how NPCs would react.

I certainly want meaningful faction memberships. I do want mutually-exclusive factions, too. (and that wouldn't be new to TES. See Dawnguard/Volkihar, Legion/Stormcloak, Telvanni/Redoran/Hlaalu.)

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Javier Borjas
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:54 am

If Bethesda Game Studios adds settlements and settlement building in The Elder Scrolls video games and takes it from Fallout 4, I hope very much that Bethesda Game Studios makes it so that our Player Characters (PC's) can only build anywhere from three forts to five forts, that's it.

I don't want to have to farm materials to build ten forts or one hundred forts.

I have enough of MineCraft already for breaking apart the entire video game world map into materials to build stuff.

I'm not sure at all about what else I want in The Elder Scrolls video games from the Fallout video games.

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Racheal Robertson
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:34 am

Therein lies the problem. As it was, Skyrim was criticized for not having enough companions because several race/gender combinations were left in the dirt, and even from the ones that existed, many race/gender combinations only had one or two options. Fallout has an easier time since you're largely just dealing with humans, so you have a comparative lot of humans to pick from to find who best works with what you want with your character. But in TES, you have 10 different races. Like PC voice acting, it'd be insane to fill out enough for each.

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Amber Hubbard
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:12 am

I can live without every race/gender combination if it means that the companions we do get are more unique like in Fallout 4. Quality over quantity.

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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:37 am

I agree it's much simpler in Fallout since there are far fewer races. I'm not sure every race needs to have a male and female companion. If we're aiming for equality, I think it would be enough to have a "good" and "bad" companion from every race. Even if they made a morally grey character for each race, that would still only be 30 possible followers. Skyrim had hundreds of quests. It would be logical that the guy you deliver goods to High Hrothgar for would follow you later. He could have a story of his own that was only revealed after earning his trust. I don't think this would be a challenge for TES, they could just designate some quests to only be available once a follower trusts the player enough. And of course, not every follower needs to have an associated quest. There could be some mercenaries that will follow as long as there are septims to be had.

(New thought, shouldn't mercenaries demand a cut of the loot? I mean, what self respecting solider of fortune will follow for an indefinite amount of time for a measly 500 septim payment up front?)

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Roanne Bardsley
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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:01 pm

Mechanically!? Bahaha!!!

I talk about choices and consequences, interesting characters, quality quests, etc.

In Skyrim you won't find this. Skyrim is an insult to intelligence.

And Fallout 4!? Is that bad RPG or bad FPS?

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jeremey wisor
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:03 am

How about the Fallout4 power armor concept for the next TES game?

The heavy armor in the next game could be all full plate armor(the thing that comes to mind when you think of a knight in shining armor) and get a little special treatment like the power armor in fallout4 did.

Steel plate armor, Dwemer armor, ebony armor and Deadric armor would be the only heavy armors in the game and would always be a full set and of course hard to acquire.

You wouldn't just equip them but enter them like the power armor in F4.

Characters in those full plate armors should be really hard to kill and some low lvl stuff like iron daggers or arrows and some smaller animals like wolfs and rats/skeevers should do no dmg at all.

This would allow the return of the medium armor: all armors that looked like the iron or steel armor in skyrim - face is exposed on the helmets, arms are not covered, normal pants on the legs with armored boots - could be classified as medium armor.

And of course there is no str bonus or things like this on the plate amors and they wont need a fusion core since its not power armor in TES :P something like this could be possible with the deadric armor thou: powered by a deadric heart it could be a demonic half-living armor that has some bonuses for the character inside (more strength, jumping power, water breathing... dunno, things a demonic armor might be able to do^^)

There must be something negative about those armors, too of course. Sneaking might be impossible in them, or lockpicking and maybe even using a bow.They would make the wearer slower and maybe cover up some of the field of view like the power armor did, too. And most importantly you can't swimm in those things. Walking under water should be a thing thou - with a potion or spell of water breathing :P

Hope you get my idea of heavy armor i have in mind for the next TES game :D


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Post » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:02 pm

Aaand... Morrowind and especially Oblivion didn't really have much of elany of that. The 'Consequences' rarely amounted to more than an extra line of dialogue (if that) the characters were sparse and forgettable, and the quests were actually pretty dull.

It's neither. It's just a DIFFERENT RPG. I had hoped by this point in time we had grown past the notion that Different=Bad, but I guess I had too much faith in the integrity of my fellow man.
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Katie Pollard
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:26 am

I still didn't decide what to think about Fallout 4. I was trying to play Dragon Age Inquisition again only to see how many features was taken from that game to Fallout 4 without really good reason - just to push it there almost by force even if it didn't make sense or it reminded unpolished.

I realised that those companions were better in Bioware games because they have the system of group - do you remember (if played)? All the classes support each other so you don't have the feeling that they are in your view all the time or practically useless like in Fallout 4. Yes, it was nice to have better personalities and a few more dialogues but their quests didn't impress me really - maybe there was some story behind but I will never know...

Another feature - dialogue system - why push that into the game when it was unfinished? And so on.

The settlement system was symply overgrown for an action/shooter/rpg game.

About the factions - yes it was discussed by some players here that they want guilds to have more of impact, but they never had that purpose in Skyrim - that was place of the Civil war, so if they would be political they would take the place of civil war and then there would be another bland Fallout 4 factions system.... or Oblivion without background political story you could play independently on the guilds, so that variability I liked about Skyrim would be taken away.

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Nick Tyler
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:16 am

I know that some players talk about consequences - Dragon age had planty of that. In TES it was mostly about the way how you finished questlines which disappeared in time. For example you could be a vampire, simply kill both gods and be done with the main quest in Morrowind, so I think that is the consequence TES fans have in their minds... You could play evil character all the way till the end.


and about quests being dull - it only does support my theory how the freedom of decision and a good reason to do something is important :).

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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:45 am

Maybe. I think it's important to remember though that Morrowind was the only Bethesda game ever made that allowed that. And, in general, I think the game suffered for it, particularly considering its horrendously designed combat. It also had the issue of not giving any indication that someone was important, at any point, until you hit that 'You done broke the game' message. Absolute freedom isn't always a blessing.

I'm a bit mixed on the idea... I like how Fallout 4 has you constructing a suit from parts, but beyond that it's Power Armour isn't really applicable to the types of armours that exist in TES. I'm of the opinion that the Light-Medium-Heavy divide should be dropped entirely, and Armour should just be treated as Armour, so the idea of having basically a heavy armature type distinction between Light and Heavy Armour definitely seems counter productive to me.

That said, Fallout 4 did implement different damage types, and varied armour resistances to them, that I think would be of immense value. Ballistic and Energy don't really have a place in TES, true, but we do have 3 basic types of physical and 3 types of Magical damage that could replace them. Adopting that system would allow you to add some real breadth to armour.

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Laura Elizabeth
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:20 am

I love this idea. The addition of physical damage types and resistances would give much-needed variety to both armor and weapons.

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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:43 am

Todd Howard did acknowledge that the dialogue system in Fallout 4 is terrible.

Todd Howard said it didn't work the way he wanted it to work.

We don't know if Todd Howard was talking about the dialogue wheel being terrible or if the voiced protagonist is terrible.

From what some people are saying though that the dialogue wheel is terrible and has limited same answer four choices, I think that Todd Howard will not have the dialogue wheel be in The Elder Scrolls Vi and also not be in Fallout 5 or any other Bethesda Game Studios developed video game ever again.

As for the voiced protagonist I can't say anything on that because it seems people in a way do like the voiced protagonist I guess. Then there are people who like to just think up of how the voices sounds in their heads.

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Julie Serebrekoff
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:40 am

I love FO4's actress.. I'm a big fan of hers in other work too. But I don't need voiced protags again.

That said, I doubt Howard was criticizing it specifically. The performance was probably the best part of it.

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claire ley
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:18 am

That's not exactly what he said. He acknowledged that it didn't work out as well as some of the other things they did (he specifically mentions the shooting, which while not fantastic, was a marked improvement over Fallout 3 and New Vegas). Their goal was to create an engaging and interactive conversation system, which to their credit, they did accomplish, but not well enough to compensate for the loss of overall options.

Now, Fallout 4 did have a lot of choice and impact in it's dialogue. The options you pick, and how NPCs react, is superior than either Skyrim or Oblivion, and on par if not slightly better than Fallout 3 (admittedly, Fallout New Vegas got it's Dialogue right, even if the rest was pretty rubbish). It also has more Speech checks than any Bethesda game i've ever seen. I mean, seriously, you're making those all the freaking time... But even without actual checks, the options you choose in conversation elicit different reactions from NPCs and your companions, and can actually cause a relatively diverse range of impacts...

But it's still hobbled by the absolutely horrible lack of branching and investigation. There's no way to question anyone about anything, and all your options (again, despite actually having a lot of them) are formulated towards moving the conversation forward. This is compounded by unnecessarily vague text prompts that don't remotely convey what you're character is going to say.

Then there's the rather uninspired visual interface which, i understand, causes some people problems.

Mechanically, i would love to have the Fallout 4 system in TES, provided there was no Voiced PC, because the vast majority of what's wrong with dialogue in Fallout 4 is just because they system they've created isn't being used to anything near it's full extent. It's like trying to pound a nail in with a Canada Arm.

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Mason Nevitt
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:21 am

Power armor in next TES!!! What a wonderful idea!

Also next TES game should be building house simulator, so we can build many houses. We should also have many wifes and many babies. And we should force these wifes to have a fight so we can watch it! And there definitely should be an option to be a gay!

And all characters should be like those from Loverslab site!!!

Also there should be an option to mark enemies, and press a button and kill them all!

Let's change it :laugh:

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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:56 am

Oi, you're a snarky one aren't ya? What's wrong with expanding the things you can do? What's wrong with being able to settle down and have a family? Build something? Be someone other than a straight-arrow Bible-thumping Gays-are-evil character?

I think someone needs more Fallout 4 in their diet, get in a balanced meal, cause they've been eating too much salt.
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Eire Charlotta
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Post » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:37 am

This tells me you just read "power armor" and "TES". How about you read the whole thing before pooping on my lawn? It was about giving some special attention to the heavy armors like the power armors got in F4.

( . Y . )

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